Gay Marraige Is No Longer Illegal!

http//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4493094.stm

In the UK it is anyway.

How much longer till it happens over here do you think? Do you think it will even happen here? Do you think it should?

With Bush as president, it's not going to happen until 2009 at least.

Its up to the people so it should be legal.

it wont become legal with some christian conservative office. Clinton 08'!!!

LOL in the UK,that is

Now that is fucking ironic. USA was funded on the premise of seperation of the church and the state to get away from England, and yet now Christianity dictates what is right and wrong.

[quote21be17a26b="tracemhunter"]it wont become legal with some christian conservative office. [b21be17a26b]Clinton 08'!!![/b21be17a26b][/quote21be17a26b]

Are you serious? )

I say lets go for the whole gay marriage thing... theyll just have to be marriedby a judge and the judge can choose to refuse or not... that simple, bastards!!

Hellloooo multi-page debate thread.



P.S I love all gays.

No fucking way gay marriage will be fully legalized here. The christian right simply won't stand for it..... D

I personally think a Legal Union will come first. I think it is unconstitiunional to not give people their full rights as a married couple, just because of their sexual orientation. I think the whole thing will have a fighting chance in the next administration.

I wish I could marry myself.

[quotec4204ed233="ilanbg"]I wish I could marry myself.[/quotec4204ed233]

Yeah! It's not like you'll get yourself pregnant....

Tranny Confessions 9 Ride My Dick and I'll Ride Yours



ok i just made that up. catchy though eh?

dude the smileys on this forum suck.

i vote no.

[quotea8bc25b619="ditto_mark"]i vote no.[/quotea8bc25b619]

why?

It isnt going to affect you at all, on the other hand, it might effect me. Not in the sense that I may have a civil union with another man, but that my sister is in fact gay and she should have every right to have the same right s straight people in terms of unity.

WOOT FOR MULTI-PAGE DEBATE!!

Multi-page debates are the best D

I really don't see what is wrong about "gay marraige". When 2 people love each other (many of them love each other more so than straight couples do) and are not harming anyone by doing so, then why shouldn't they be allowed to have the same rights?

When you refuse to allow people the same rights as the rest of the counrty, then it's discriminatory. Why is it not OK to discriminate against people of different ethnicites (black, white, hispanic, scottish wink ) but it's very widely accepted to discriminate against two people who are the same sex, love each other and just want to have the same rights as everyone else?

It's hypocritical.

Why do gay people have to be married in order to still enjoy the same rights as normal couples? Why does a license from the state have to be present in order for them to finally be happy?

And most people have a gay person in their family, (even if they don't know it.)

[quote99d26e69c8="Peinecone"]And most people have a gay person in their family, (even if they don't know it.)[/quote99d26e69c8]
true. my aunt's husband's brother is gay. he is still cool though. there is also an alcoholic in most families.

no

[quotedd4b583a6d="cyberpunk243"]Why do gay people have to be married in order to still enjoy the same rights as normal couples? Why does a license from the state have to be present in order for them to finally be happy?[/quotedd4b583a6d]

Who said that they can only be happy with a peice of paper?

I'm sure they are happy at the moment but when you are being discriminated against then you'd like that to change wouldn't you? Whether it made you happy or not.

Honestly, I'm not a religious person, but I don't have anything against those that are and actually think it's a good thing in most cases with morals and what not...

...but hyped up religious freaks need to shut the fuck up and stop trying to run shit...

I only read like two posts in this thread, so that might have been off base with the rest... Oh well I say.

[quote78aee2c9d1="theysayjump"]

Who said that they can only be happy with a peice of paper?

I'm sure they are happy at the moment but when you are being discriminated against then you'd like that to change wouldn't you? Whether it made you happy or not.[/quote78aee2c9d1]

The allowance of marriage for gay couples will not be the end of the discrimination towards them. A piece of paper shouldn't be such a big deal.

What are your feelings towards the adoption of kids by gay couples?

[quote2c615d84de="clerick"]Now that is fucking ironic. USA was funded on the premise of seperation of the church and the state to get away from England, and yet now Christianity dictates what is right and wrong.[/quote2c615d84de]

The USA was founded on Christian morals. They separated from England for many reasons. One of the main movements to seperate from England was caused by different denominations of the Christian church wanting to have Christianity in their own way and not in England's way. They felt that England was constricting their way of Christianity so they broke off.

It is not, in any way, ironic. The whole thing that started up Separation of Church and State was another issue.

And I say no, because I am a Christian and two of the same sexual orientation is not the way God intended it to be.

If they're so set on getting married, they can just fly to Boston and get married there and then come back to where they originally lived in the US and they'd be considered a legal married couple. The state has to honor it just as they would honor someone getting a license in Kansas and then moving to Colorado.

[quote14199a4c10="cyberpunk243"]Why do gay people have to be married in order to still enjoy the same rights as normal couples? Why does a license from the state have to be present in order for them to finally be happy?[/quote14199a4c10]

You do understand it's not the piece of paper/license that a gay couple desires right? It's the recognition by the a) community and b) their insurance companies that they are as much of a married couple as a man and woman (a normal roll oops couple in your words) who are married, and as a result, deserve the same rights and discounts.

I'd be cool with gays being allowed to adopt kids.

Who cares, as long as the kid is taken care of?

[quote6302b69b89="tylerc"]I'd be cool with gays being allowed to adopt kids.

Who cares, as long as the kid is taken care of?[/quote6302b69b89]


But then the kids will be gay! And we'll have teh gay America!!!!!!!!11

shock

honestly......im gonna have to go with no, im not a gay basher or anything, but cyberpunk is right, why do you need a piece of paper to determine whether two people are happy or should be together for the rest of your lives...........and marriage is a sacred thing in "religion", therefore if the gays want a piece of paper legalizing they own each other fine, just dont call it marriage, call Butt Fuckers Conjoinment........this sounds really negative and im sure i have a bunch who disagree, and i probably have some gay 8th cousin or something, but soon we will let people get married to sheep and giraffes and whatever else.

noes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111one!!!!!!!!!!11

as long as the kid is taken care of i see no problem. it could be another solution to abortion for those of you that are against it. and j4320, they shouldnt have to buy a plane ticket to boston to get married; it should be honored wherever in the united states. there is a gay member on the forums but i cant remember his name. i think it is ipodjohn or something. im sure he would have more insite.

[quote7fde86789c="doylnea"][quote7fde86789c="cyberpunk243"]Why do gay people have to be married in order to still enjoy the same rights as normal couples? Why does a license from the state have to be present in order for them to finally be happy?[/quote7fde86789c]

You do understand it's not the piece of paper/license that a gay couple desires right? It's the recognition by the a) community and b) their insurance companies that they are as much of a married couple as a man and woman (a normal roll oops couple in your words) who are married, and as a result, deserve the same rights and discounts.[/quote7fde86789c]

Oh ok. Well as long as they get their discounts then I'm in.

i gotta vote yes for this one cause my brother is gay and he's the coolest guy i know... not a prancy femine gay either.. runs a 342 mile and watches football with me all day saturday and sunday when he comes over... i don't see how 13 people voted no but i guess people think differently and i just gotta respect their right to do so. anyone else think this is gonna end up with kinda the same results as the evolution vs creationism thing?

[quotebbc1f5ee33="Aurelius"]my brother ...runs a 342 mile [/quotebbc1f5ee33]

Do you mean a 442 mile?

[quote294335549b="doylnea"][quote294335549b="Aurelius"]my brother ...runs a 342 mile [/quote294335549b]

Do you mean a 442 mile?[/quote294335549b]

That's definately not true.

The fastest mile time is 350.83... Alan Webb's time.

Actually I think someone broke it but I'm not sure.

I think a child being raised by gay parents would really mess them up. I mean they would never have a chance to experience "normal" life.

this is true, i think only kids who know they are gay, b/c "you are born gay" right?? should be allowed to be adopted by gay parents.

ROFL at Butt Fuckers Conjoinment lol lol lol
and yes tracemhunter we do have a few gay member in the forum
do the names "Wood" and "Collateral" come to mind? D

Seriously though, gays can never be allowed to marry because the definition of marriage is the union of [ba917ae7c4d]a man and a woman[/ba917ae7c4d]
I hope the worst case senairo is gays might be allowed to sign some documents that would give them the same discounts married couples get but for them to be able to actually get "married" in a church and be able to adopt kids would be an immeasurable travesty. shock

[quote8a62f44980="J4320"][quote8a62f44980="doylnea"][quote8a62f44980="Aurelius"]my brother ...runs a 342 mile [/quote8a62f44980]

Do you mean a 442 mile?[/quote8a62f44980]

That's definately not true.

The fastest mile time is 350.83... Alan Webb's time.

Actually I think someone broke it but I'm not sure.[/quote8a62f44980]

Well that's not accurate either - Alan Webb's time is a HS time, and he's since run a 348.92, since the 350 in London.

Aurelius's brother could run in College, or Professionally for all we know. It would be pretty cool to have Hicham El Guerrouj's brother posting on our forum.

[quote4fab71a562="JUNIOR6886"]ROFL at Butt Fuckers Conjoinment lol lol lol
and yes tracemhunter we do have a few gay member in the forum
do the names [b4fab71a562]"Wood" and "Collateral"[/b4fab71a562] come to mind? D

Seriously though, gays can never be allowed to marry because the definition of marriage is the union of [b4fab71a562]a man and a woman[/b4fab71a562]
I hope the worst case senairo is gays might be allowed to sign some documents that would give them the same discounts married couples get but for them to be able to actually get "married" in a church and be able to adopt kids would be an immeasurable travesty. shock[/quote4fab71a562]

Kind of funny but.... I think both of those guys are awesome.

They are fun people to talk to.

[quote93c96ee52d="JUNIOR6886"]ROFL at Butt Fuckers Conjoinment lol lol lol
and yes tracemhunter we do have a few gay member in the forum
do the names "Wood" and "Collateral" come to mind? D

Seriously though, gays can never be allowed to marry because the definition of marriage is the union of [b93c96ee52d]a man and a woman[/b93c96ee52d]
I hope the worst case senairo is gays might be allowed to sign some documents that would give them the same discounts married couples get but for them to be able to actually get "married" in a church and be able to adopt kids would be an immeasurable travesty. shock[/quote93c96ee52d]
thanks for not looking it up asshat.
thank google for making you into an asshat.
thank me for pointing it out.
Definitions of marriage on the Web
the state of being a married couple voluntarily joined for life (or until divorce); "a long and happy marriage"; "God bless this union"
two people who are married to each other; "his second marriage was happier than the first"; "a married couple without love"
the act of marrying; the nuptial ceremony; "their marriage was conducted in the chapel"
a close and intimate union; "the marriage of music and dance"; "a marriage of ideas"

[quote84f0574779="doylnea"][quote84f0574779="J4320"][quote84f0574779="doylnea"][quote84f0574779="Aurelius"]my brother ...runs a 342 mile [/quote84f0574779]

Do you mean a 442 mile?[/quote84f0574779]

That's definately not true.

The fastest mile time is 350.83... Alan Webb's time.

Actually I think someone broke it but I'm not sure.[/quote84f0574779]

Well that's not accurate either - Alan Webb's time is a HS time,

Aurelius's brother could run in College, or Professionally for all we know. It would be pretty cool to have Hicham El Guerrouj's brother posting on our forum.[/quote84f0574779]


Oh I see. So that's the fastest highschool mile time?

What's the fastest mile time ever?

the fastest mile is rediculous.

[quoteafb728a1e6="J4320"]Oh I see. So that's the fastest highschool mile time?

What's the fastest mile time ever?[/quoteafb728a1e6]

343.13 Hicham El Guerrouj 07.07.1999

[quote3a2f0e3db4="turpentinedreams"][quote3a2f0e3db4="JUNIOR6886"]ROFL at Butt Fuckers Conjoinment lol lol lol
and yes tracemhunter we do have a few gay member in the forum
do the names "Wood" and "Collateral" come to mind? D

Seriously though, gays can never be allowed to marry because the definition of marriage is the union of [b3a2f0e3db4]a man and a woman[/b3a2f0e3db4]
I hope the worst case senairo is gays might be allowed to sign some documents that would give them the same discounts married couples get but for them to be able to actually get "married" in a church and be able to adopt kids would be an immeasurable travesty. shock[/quote3a2f0e3db4]
thanks for not looking it up asshat.
thank google for making you into an asshat.
thank me for pointing it out.
Definitions of marriage on the Web
the state of being a married couple voluntarily joined for life (or until divorce); "a long and happy marriage"; "God bless this union"
two people who are married to each other; "his second marriage was happier than the first"; "a married couple without love"
the act of marrying; the nuptial ceremony; "their marriage was conducted in the chapel"
a close and intimate union; "the marriage of music and dance"; "a marriage of ideas"[/quote3a2f0e3db4]

from americancatholic.org
"Marriage, as instituted by God, is a faithful, exclusive, lifelong union of a man and a woman joined in an intimate community of life and love. They commit themselves completely to each other and to the wondrous responsibility of bringing children into the world and caring for them."

I didnt need to look it up because i know perfectly well what marriage was before searching for its full definition on blingo....
And thanks for the flame. In an arguement, the first person to resort to personal attacks (ie calling me an "asshat") is always the loser. dance2

[quotedf8c515689="doylnea"][quotedf8c515689="J4320"]Oh I see. So that's the fastest highschool mile time?

What's the fastest mile time ever?[/quotedf8c515689]

343.13 Hicham El Guerrouj 07.07.1999[/quotedf8c515689]

Why thank you... Or should I thank Google? lol

Just for grins and for the sake of a well-reasoned argument (with logic rather than name calling) - let's all remember that a religious person (eg a catholic) is going to have a very different view of what marriage is than a non religious person.

As such, please don't make this a [quote030987ae51="Webster's.com/CatholicAmerica.org"] . [/quote030987ae51] thread.

I suggest making your argument about why [b030987ae51]you [/b030987ae51]believe what [b030987ae51]you [/b030987ae51]believe, rather than telling the other person [i030987ae51][b030987ae51]they [/b030987ae51][/i030987ae51]are wrong for what [i030987ae51][b030987ae51]they [/b030987ae51][/i030987ae51]believe.

hear hear. I personally don't really have a preference either way. I am only trying to question the motives behind such pleas. It just seems to me that homosexuals are pushing for marriage legality, not for the sole purposes of being able to get married, but to prove that they could get it if they wanted to. Thus, overturning norms that have been in effect up to this point.

I think not letting gays marry is like not letting asians marry because they are asian. Its an issue of people's rights. Gays may not be gay because they where born that way but they are that way and they should be treated like eeryone else, and everyone else an get married, so why can;t gays?
\

Its a very simple decision. I'm black, would you keep me rom getting married to another black person because of our skin colored. Hell, lets take it a step furter... inter-racial relationships. It just so happens that I also find white women much mre ttractive than black ones, will you shun me and deny my love for a person because (at a time) this was not the norm? I think not.

I'm catholic, I go to church when I get the chance and especially holy days of obligation. I go to a catholic highschool. St.Thomas Aquinas in South Florida, we are going to states at Dophins Stadium for divisions 5A this friday undefeated only to take up a match with Lakeland(30-0) who we lost to at states last year. My mother and father are extremely religios, we say grace before every meal. When my mother dies, if before my father, he plans on becoming a priest. I can hear a televangelist in the background right now in another room actually. I've already mentioed, my sister is gay. She's in her room sleeping right now. Three of my second cousins are also gay. I'm pretty sure one of my first cousins is also. I have 3 close friends which are also gay.
I say this not thinking about myself because'm very much attracted to women, but thinking beyond myself, beyond religion and beyond government. We have no right to look upon others disgracefully, shun them and deny them a right to share the benefits a married man and woman are able to have. You don't necessarily have to call it a marriage and many many marriages are done in court or atleast outside of a church. My father is a judge, he's done his fair share of marriages, a couple of which have actually been inside of my home with a mere 4 people joining the couple. A common term for what is then made is a civil union. There is no joining of flames in the church to insinuate two becoming one, simply a signing of a piece of paper which signifies a love and endows rights upon the two. the point is, you have to look beyond religion and personal prejudices. Grow up! The world is changing, get your head out of the gutter and except the people for who they are, people. Why dont I take away your right to marry a person (no matter your preference) and see how much you like it.

.... also, I'm still waiting for a legit response as to why gay and lesbian people shouldnt be married. this argumnt is almost as one sided as my discussion with my parents at the table today about my buying another snake at a convention this saturday.

EDIT Wow I wrote a lot!!

buying a snake?
hahahaha

sorry.

I am not sure why people should interfere with other people's business. Its not like its hurting anyone when two gay people get married.

[quote02bcd6441d="Daggoth"]I am not sure why people should interfere with other people's business. Its not like its hurting anyone when two gay people get married.[/quote02bcd6441d]ut it hurts teh god and he shall smite us all for it.
fear fear
death
9/11
roll

yah, I had a ball python almost a year ago but it sorta killed itself because it was apprently mentally retarded so they insist that it ''just wasnt meant to be.... why would you get another snake.... i just dont want it in my house.... why cant you get into other hobbies.... but your other one killed itself''

its ok, its actually a funny story.... a snake committing suicide... wasnt funny when it hapened though.. But really, I'm extremely knowledgable about the suject, herps, that is (reptiles and amphibians). I've done extensive research and know almsot he complete anatomy and can identify MANY MANY MANY different local species and common pet species. I can vouch for their habitat requirements now and when they age as well as know the etire brumating/breeding process onto the hatching and first shed cycles..

All in all, I take my hobbies seriously. One career choice I'm thinking of is vetinary sciences, particulary specializing in herpetology..

[quoteaa04034794="turpentinedreams"][quoteaa04034794="Daggoth"]I am not sure why people should interfere with other people's business. Its not like its hurting anyone when two gay people get married.[/quoteaa04034794]ut it hurts teh god and he shall smite us all for it.
fear fear
death
9/11
roll[/quoteaa04034794]

lol ...funny funny... lol

[quote1ab7b13889="tylerc"]I'd be cool with gays being allowed to adopt kids.

Who cares, as long as the kid is taken care of?[/quote1ab7b13889]

FUCK no, FUCK gay people and all that shit.
Think about it, would you like to grow with GAY parents tha are not even your real parents?
It's hard to find ot that you are adopted, now it's going to be worse if you have 2 fucking shemales as parents.


That is 100% agains't my religion, BUT thats not the reason I don't like gay people, I just - I don't know, it's weird. I don't hate them BUT I will NEVER be cool (agree) with them.

[quote62d4ca0fa3="cartrenroy"][quote62d4ca0fa3="tylerc"]I'd be cool with gays being allowed to adopt kids.

Who cares, as long as the kid is taken care of?[/quote62d4ca0fa3]

FUCK no, FUCK gay people and all that shit.
Think about it, would you like to grow with GAY parents tha are not even your real parents?
It's hard to find ot that you are adopted, now it's going to be worse if you have 2 fucking shemales as parents[/quote62d4ca0fa3]

might I say that I hate people like you. Your 3 lines of dialogue were very much immature and hard to take serious. Are you adopted that you 'know' how hard it is to learn that you are just that, adopted?

[quote6c75dd629d="cartrenroy"][quote6c75dd629d="tylerc"]I'd be cool with gays being allowed to adopt kids.

Who cares, as long as the kid is taken care of?[/quote6c75dd629d]

FUCK no, FUCK gay people and all that shit.
Think about it, would you like to grow with GAY parents tha are not even your real parents?
It's hard to find ot that you are adopted, now it's going to be worse if you have 2 fucking shemales as parents.


That is 100% agains't my religion, BUT thats not the reason I don't like gay people, I just - I don't know, it's weird. I don't hate them BUT I will NEVER be cool (agree) with them.[/quote6c75dd629d]
i'd rather have 2 moms than no moms.

[quote3014c38984="cartrenroy"][quote3014c38984="tylerc"]I'd be cool with gays being allowed to adopt kids.

Who cares, as long as the kid is taken care of?[/quote3014c38984]

FUCK no, FUCK gay people and all that shit.
Think about it, would you like to grow with GAY parents tha are not even your real parents?
It's hard to find ot that you are adopted, now it's going to be worse if you have 2 fucking shemales as parents.


That is 100% agains't my religion, BUT thats not the reason I don't like gay people, I just - I don't know, it's weird. I don't hate them BUT I will NEVER be cool (agree) with them.[/quote3014c38984]


What's your religion?

Cartrenroyism

EDIT You know what I love? I love when discussions such as this start dying out and the ones making arguments like cartrenroy (first name to come to mind, sorry) no longer respond or give input.

[quote31ec359e42="whatisntseen"][quote31ec359e42="cartrenroy"][quote31ec359e42="tylerc"]I'd be cool with gays being allowed to adopt kids.

Who cares, as long as the kid is taken care of?[/quote31ec359e42]

FUCK no, FUCK gay people and all that shit.
Think about it, would you like to grow with GAY parents tha are not even your real parents?
It's hard to find ot that you are adopted, now it's going to be worse if you have 2 fucking shemales as parents[/quote31ec359e42]

might I say that I hate people like you. Your 3 lines of dialogue were very much immature and hard to take serious. Are you adopted that you 'know' how hard it is to learn that you are just that, adopted?[/quote31ec359e42]


I really don't care if you hate me or not, I am not here to make friends.
I am not adopted but I know ALOT of people (adopted) and one of them had a GAY parent (and it wasn't good) - are you gay or something? cuz if you are then sorry? but that is just the way I feel



[quote31ec359e42]What's your religion?[/quote31ec359e42]
Is not because of my religion, I'm just AGAISN'T gay people (why? I don't know, maybe becuase I just don't like them)

[quote15ce78b406="JOSHBOX"]Its up to the people so it should be legal.[/quote15ce78b406]

Tyranny of the Majority is what the gay marriage laws against gays are, simple as that. It is not your business, let them be married. Relgion has nothing to do with marriage, neither does adobtion.

I agree with cartenory with gays adopting kids. I swear I would commit suicide as soon as I was old enough to figure it out.

[quote9b91529371="Daggoth"]I agree with cartenory with gays adopting kids. I swear I would commit suicide as soon as I was old enough to figure it out.[/quote9b91529371]

There you go. If "stupid" GAY people wants to start a life, then do it, your fucking business, BUT don't fucking destroy the life of another person JUST because you are ABNORMAL
(they may give him/her LOVE but is not the same)

im tellin u, marriage is for religions therefore if gays need legal rights to be married, give it a legal name and a separate doctrine......so they can get all their tax benefits and stuff, and they can only be allowed to adopt gay kids ( b/c gays are born gay!), im lookn for out for the kids they have already had it hard enough without their real parents, dont fuck up their lives more by giving them to some gay couple.

typo.. of course he can't run 342... he's asian! fastest mile time i know of personally is my coach who ran a 425... 519 for me last year so i'm a disgrace to my family 8)

o and i jsut wanted to thorw in that alan webb always chokes at the olympics cause the black dudes from ethiopa and stuff always whup him bad

[quotef40821b6f1="kdollar"]im tellin u, marriage is for religions therefore if gays need legal rights to be married, give it a legal name and a separate doctrine......so they can get all their tax benefits and stuff, and they can only be allowed to adopt gay kids ( b/c gays are born gay!), im lookn for out for the kids they have already had it hard enough without their real parents, dont fuck up their lives more by giving them to some gay couple.[/quotef40821b6f1]

Marriage is not only for religions.

[quote8c0d682484="kdollar"]im tellin u, marriage is for religions therefore if gays need legal rights to be married, give it a legal name and a separate doctrine......so they can get all their tax benefits and stuff, and they can only be allowed to adopt gay kids ( b/c gays are born gay!), im lookn for out for the kids they have already had it hard enough without their real parents, dont fuck up their lives more by giving them to some gay couple.[/quote8c0d682484]

gay couples aren't that bad unless they're the girly girl type who can't stand dust and dirt... they're most likely rich too according to census figures... i wouldn't mind being spoiled into oblivion. saves me from having to do refs for stuff! D

As long as they dont screw up another person's life...

Wow there are more ignorant people here than I thought.

How many violent, abusive, mistreating gay people do you know of? Probably not many. Now, how many violent, abusive mistreating straight people do you know? Probably quite a fucking lot more than gay people.

Who would you rather have orphaned kids grow up with and be brought up by?

A loving caring, giving couple, or an abusive, mistreating violent couple?

I'm not saying all straight couples are abusive, but there are a hell of a lot more than there are gay couples. You people think tha because the parents are gay, then the kid is going to have the worst life imaginable.

I was brought up being told that people should be treated equally and fairly, no matter what they look like, where they live, what they do for a living etc. All you people who are saying that gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry or adopt kids, how would you feel if the person in charge of this country was against straight marraige or straight couple adopting kids? Far-fetched I know, but still, you wouldn't be very pleased about it.

The last time I checked, this was supposed to be the land of the free with liberty and justice for all. There will never be liberty and justice for all as long as the discrimination conintues.

All gay people are the same you know.





















They all are gay.

[quote182f720862="theysayjump"]Wow there are more ignorant people here than I thought.

How many violent, abusive, mistreating gay people do you know of? Probably not many. Now, how many violent, abusive mistreating straight people do you know? Probably quite a fucking lot more than gay people.

Who would you rather have orphaned kids grow up with and be brought up by?

A loving caring, giving couple, or an abusive, mistreating violent couple?

I'm not saying all straight couples are abusive, but there are a hell of a lot more than there are gay couples. You people think tha because the parents are gay, then the kid is going to have the worst life imaginable.

I was brought up being told that people should be treated equally and fairly, no matter what they look like, where they live, what they do for a living etc. All you people who are saying that gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry or adopt kids, how would you feel if the person in charge of this country was against straight marraige or straight couple adopting kids? Far-fetched I know, but still, you wouldn't be very pleased about it.

The last time I checked, this was supposed to be the land of the free with liberty and justice for all. There will never be liberty and justice for all as long as the discrimination conintues.[/quote182f720862]

well spoken... someone's sexual orientation can't be the determining factor as to how well they raise their children... though i know that someone's gonna rebuke this by just saying that a child needs BOTH a mother AND a father to raise them up right... o wells...

[quotecb36241b84="whatisntseen"]Its a very simple decision. I'm black, would you keep me rom getting married to another black person because of our skin colored. Hell, lets take it a step furter... inter-racial relationships. It just so happens that I also find white women much mre ttractive than black ones, will you shun me and deny my love for a person because (at a time) this was not the norm? I think not.

I'm catholic, I go to church when I get the chance and especially holy days of obligation. I go to a catholic highschool. St.Thomas Aquinas in South Florida, we are going to states at Dophins Stadium for divisions 5A this friday undefeated only to take up a match with Lakeland(30-0) who we lost to at states last year. My mother and father are extremely religios, we say grace before every meal. When my mother dies, if before my father, he plans on becoming a priest. I can hear a televangelist in the background right now in another room actually. I've already mentioed, my sister is gay. She's in her room sleeping right now. Three of my second cousins are also gay. I'm pretty sure one of my first cousins is also. I have 3 close friends which are also gay.
I say this not thinking about myself because'm very much attracted to women, but thinking beyond myself, beyond religion and beyond government. We have no right to look upon others disgracefully, shun them and deny them a right to share the benefits a married man and woman are able to have. You don't necessarily have to call it a marriage and many many marriages are done in court or atleast outside of a church. My father is a judge, he's done his fair share of marriages, a couple of which have actually been inside of my home with a mere 4 people joining the couple. A common term for what is then made is a civil union. There is no joining of flames in the church to insinuate two becoming one, simply a signing of a piece of paper which signifies a love and endows rights upon the two. the point is, you have to look beyond religion and personal prejudices. Grow up! The world is changing, get your head out of the gutter and except the people for who they are, people. Why dont I take away your right to marry a person (no matter your preference) and see how much you like it.

.... also, I'm still waiting for a legit response as to why gay and lesbian people shouldnt be married. this argumnt is almost as one sided as my discussion with my parents at the table today about my buying another snake at a convention this saturday.

EDIT Wow I wrote a lot!![/quotecb36241b84]

Correct me if im wrong but did you get to choose if you would be black or not when you were born? I didn't think so. Equality between different ethnic groups is MUCH MUCH different than equality between Gay and Straight people. Gay people choose their way of life and must now face the [bcb36241b84]consquences[/bcb36241b84] of their [bcb36241b84]decision.[/bcb36241b84] Don't feel like being looked down upon as a fudge packer and a Fag? Dont take it in the ass. Simple shrug

I was starting to change my mind about you Junior after your MySpace charade, but now you've just taken the biscuit.

Have you ever seen those home video shows when they show 2 kids (3 or 4 years old) kissing each other or holding hands etc? You think kids that young know what gay or straight is? No, it's the way they feel, they are attracted to or drawn to kids of the opposite sex, they want to kiss them etc.

Did they choose to be straight? No, they were born that way. Just the same as people who are gay, even though some may choose to be gay, alot are born gay as well. roll

[quoted5c45c5f53="theysayjump"]I was starting to change my mind about you Junior after your MySpace charade, but now you've just taken the biscuit.

Have you ever seen those home video shows when they show 2 kids (3 or 4 years old) kissing each other or holding hands etc? You think kids that young know what gay or straight is? No, it's the way they feel, they are attracted to or drawn to kids of the opposite sex, they want to kiss them etc.

Did they choose to be straight? No, they were born that way. Just the same as people who are gay, even though some may choose to be gay, alot are born gay as well. roll[/quoted5c45c5f53]

The kids are not going to be GAY just becuase the parents are BUT the problem is (from my point of view) those kids at the age of 15-18 (knowing that he was adopted by a GAY couple)

has nothing to be with being racist, racism is FUCKING STUPID

i lived in the castro in san francisco for a year or so and i never had any problems with my neighbors in the apartment complex i lived in - probably 80% gay - and they even bought stuff for me from the nearby safeway when i got hurt playing football with a couple of buddies so maybe i'm biased cause gay people have treated me more than spectacular so far...

[quote23c3ebda80="cartrenroy"][quote23c3ebda80="theysayjump"]I was starting to change my mind about you Junior after your MySpace charade, but now you've just taken the biscuit.

Have you ever seen those home video shows when they show 2 kids (3 or 4 years old) kissing each other or holding hands etc? You think kids that young know what gay or straight is? No, it's the way they feel, they are attracted to or drawn to kids of the opposite sex, they want to kiss them etc.

Did they choose to be straight? No, they were born that way. Just the same as people who are gay, even though some may choose to be gay, alot are born gay as well. roll[/quote23c3ebda80]

The kids are not going to be GAY just becuase the parents are BUT the problem is (from my point of view) those kids at the age of 15-18 (knowing that he was adopted by a GAY couple)

has nothing to be with being racist, racism is FUCKING STUPID[/quote23c3ebda80]

Wtf difference does it make if the kid grows up to know that his "parents" are gay?

[quote6d239d1481="theysayjump"][quote6d239d1481="cartrenroy"][quote6d239d1481="theysayjump"]I was starting to change my mind about you Junior after your MySpace charade, but now you've just taken the biscuit.

Have you ever seen those home video shows when they show 2 kids (3 or 4 years old) kissing each other or holding hands etc? You think kids that young know what gay or straight is? No, it's the way they feel, they are attracted to or drawn to kids of the opposite sex, they want to kiss them etc.

Did they choose to be straight? No, they were born that way. Just the same as people who are gay, even though some may choose to be gay, alot are born gay as well. roll[/quote6d239d1481]

The kids are not going to be GAY just becuase the parents are BUT the problem is (from my point of view) those kids at the age of 15-18 (knowing that he was adopted by a GAY couple)

has nothing to be with being racist, racism is FUCKING STUPID[/quote6d239d1481]

Wtf difference does it make if the kid grows up to know that his "parents" are gay?[/quote6d239d1481]

I don't know, my parents are not gay but it will make a big difference (one of my friends had GAY parents and he said - NO, no, no and NOOOO)

I have no idea what point you are trying to make and apparently neither do you. shrug

the truth of the matter is that growing up with a gay couple as parental figures or legal guardians, whichever you prefer, will simply open up the child's eyes to the fact that a gay couple are still human and they have all the same problems that straight coupls have. I have quite a few adopted friends also and they arent having trouble. I remember learning about sex at an extremely early age. Once thats learned, it should become extremely evident that you arent a product of your parental figures, however, if the couple raised you properly, you would know you were adopted and that their way of life is different from day one.

I'm sorry, I dont feel like reading what I just typed and i was distracted so I will just submit it from here..

[quote83b2f798a5="theysayjump"]I was starting to change my mind about you Junior after your MySpace charade, but now you've just taken the biscuit.

Have you ever seen those home video shows when they show 2 kids (3 or 4 years old) kissing each other or holding hands etc? You think kids that young know what gay or straight is? No, it's the way they feel, they are attracted to or drawn to kids of the opposite sex, they want to kiss them etc.

Did they choose to be straight? No, they were born that way. Just the same as people who are gay, even though some may choose to be gay, alot are born gay as well. roll[/quote83b2f798a5]

Aww 1 step forward 2 steps back i suppose (

If I was presented hard undeniable evidence that gayness was an innate trait then I would probably change my mind about gay people.

I mean common suppose this guy http//www.renfields.com/creepy%20guy.jpg[" alt=""/img83b2f798a5] claimed he's always been attracted to 7 year old girls and wants to marry one? Should we take his word for it? Even if by some bizzare twist of fate his attraction to 7 year old girls is innate would that make his desire to marry one any less creepy? shrug

lol.. last time i checked gay dudes dont' have shark teeth and long hair but hey.. maybe they grow em differently elsewhere?

Ahh, the old homosexuality/pedophelia argument. I love it.

[quoteee6b214265="Allen626"][quoteee6b214265="kdollar"]im tellin u, marriage is for religions therefore if gays need legal rights to be married, give it a legal name and a separate doctrine......so they can get all their tax benefits and stuff, and they can only be allowed to adopt gay kids ( b/c gays are born gay!), im lookn for out for the kids they have already had it hard enough without their real parents, dont fuck up their lives more by giving them to some gay couple.[/quoteee6b214265]

Marriage is not only for religions.[/quoteee6b214265]

how can you say this?? you think its derived from the government? it is in all religions not just christianity either.

me and jump are good friends and we see different views there is no one ignorant here unless you want state ur view without any explanation, so i dont want to sound discrimantory heres my explanation i just think that their legal documents securing their lives together should have a different word than marriage.

the thing about marriage is grown adult stuff but kids cant make decisions, therefore the gov't should for kids under their care. and here is my point and its going to stated clearly......

if gays want kids..........make some.

[quote783538cc61="nicd.01"]Ahh, the old homosexuality/pedophelia argument. I love it.[/quote783538cc61]

[b783538cc61]pedophelia[/b783538cc61] - I like that word, funny word

[quote0664e8de2f="JUNIOR6886"][quote0664e8de2f="theysayjump"]I was starting to change my mind about you Junior after your MySpace charade, but now you've just taken the biscuit.

Have you ever seen those home video shows when they show 2 kids (3 or 4 years old) kissing each other or holding hands etc? You think kids that young know what gay or straight is? No, it's the way they feel, they are attracted to or drawn to kids of the opposite sex, they want to kiss them etc.

Did they choose to be straight? No, they were born that way. Just the same as people who are gay, even though some may choose to be gay, alot are born gay as well. roll[/quote0664e8de2f]

Aww 1 step forward 2 steps back i suppose (

If I was presented hard undeniable evidence that gayness was an innate trait then I would probably change my mind about gay people.

I mean common suppose this guy http//www.renfields.com/creepy%20guy.jpg[" alt=""/img0664e8de2f] claimed he's always been attracted to 7 year old girls and wants to marry one? Should we take his word for it? Even if by some bizzare twist of fate his attraction to 7 year old girls is innate would that make his desire to marry one any less creepy? shrug[/quote0664e8de2f]

thats a bit of a bend, dont you think? do you honestly think 7 year old girls would innately have an attraction, let alone realize they have an attraction for him? and also, wouldnt they grow up, he'd have a new one every year, no? you have to take the maturity and time span of the relationship into this also. Two [b0664e8de2f]ADULTS[/b0664e8de2f] make a decision to [b0664e8de2f]love and cherish[/b0664e8de2f] one another yet are having minor financial problems that would easily be fixed say if a civil union between the two were in play. That scenario is much different from your 60yr old Freddy-wannabe having a strange child-pornagraphy fetish. Also, it would be illegal for him to have any relations with the girls unlike that of same-sex relationships which are very much legal.

[quote0987e66206="cartrenroy"][quote0987e66206="nicd.01"]Ahh, the old homosexuality/pedophelia argument. I love it.[/quote0987e66206]

[b0987e66206]pedophelia[/b0987e66206] - I like that word, funny word[/quote0987e66206]

It was a typo, sweetheart. smooch

OOOk now we're connecting gays with pedophiles...

[quote5a7dbffc66="clerick"]OOOk now we're connecting gays with pedophiles...[/quote5a7dbffc66]

See, those against it are trying to relate gays to anything else that the greater of the majority (that is a good 90+%) think is absoultely wrong in all aspects..

Like Caternory said, your high school years are going to be hell if somebody finds out you parents are gay, and it is even worse because you find out you are adopted. I agree that loving caring gay couples are better than abusive couples but that is a little extreme.

[quote3f4b790585="whatisntseen"][quote3f4b790585="clerick"]OOOk now we're connecting gays with pedophiles...[/quote3f4b790585]

See, those against it are trying to relate gays to anything else that the greater of the majority (that is a good 90+%) think is absoultely wrong in all aspects..[/quote3f4b790585]
Yep. Gays share a bond between two adults and bring much to the society. My best friends mom is gay and is living with another woman, and neither is her son nor daughter gay or show any signs of it! When people equate gays with pedophiles I get sickened, a pedophile doesn't share a bond with a child but instead forces it to do what he wants without a choice. Gays on the other hand have a choice whether they want to share a bond with someone or not.

I was showing theysayjump a case where someone's natural trait would be wrong, despite the fact that it was natural. Im not saying gay people are pedofiles... roll

[quotedff9a1fa54="Daggoth"]Like Caternory said, your high school years are going to be hell if somebody finds out you parents are gay, and it is even worse because you find out you are adopted. I agree that loving caring gay couples are better than abusive couples but that is a little extreme.[/quotedff9a1fa54]
What the hell? My best friends mom is gay and he is the most popular person in the school, and no one gives a flaming shit about what his parents are, I don't know what kind of shit ass HS you're from /

having a gay couple as your parents during your teen years is better than living in an orphanage until you're 18, right?

Well then again, I go to an all boys high school so if you got gay dads it is worse than lesbian moms. shrug

[quote0fd4250c5d="Aurelius"]having a gay couple as your parents during your teen years is better than living in an orphanage until you're 18, right?[/quote0fd4250c5d]

Guaran-fucking-teed.

Ya, I agree with that. But I thought the question was, how would you feel with gay parents. Like the old saying goes

"Anything is better than nothing"

[quotedfa03db1ed="kdollar"][quotedfa03db1ed="Allen626"][quotedfa03db1ed="kdollar"]im tellin u, marriage is for religions therefore if gays need legal rights to be married, give it a legal name and a separate doctrine......so they can get all their tax benefits and stuff, and they can only be allowed to adopt gay kids ( b/c gays are born gay!), im lookn for out for the kids they have already had it hard enough without their real parents, dont fuck up their lives more by giving them to some gay couple.[/quotedfa03db1ed]

Marriage is not only for religions.[/quotedfa03db1ed]

how can you say this?? you think its derived from the government? it is in all religions not just christianity either.

me and jump are good friends and we see different views there is no one ignorant here unless you want state ur view without any explanation, so i dont want to sound discrimantory heres my explanation i just think that their legal documents securing their lives together should have a different word than marriage.

the thing about marriage is grown adult stuff but kids cant make decisions, therefore the gov't should for kids under their care. and here is my point and its going to stated clearly......

if gays want kids..........make some.[/quotedfa03db1ed]

Marriage is for gov't and religions alike, but there are two differant definitions. Marriage is dictated by religion in the governmental process in the issue of gay marriage, and should not be.

"Marriage is a relationship between individuals" http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage

Marriage should be able to be between two men or women in government, because religious morales have nothing to do with the U.S. government. AKA Seperation of Church and State.

It is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS if two people of the same sex want to get together. They are not worse parents then a man and a wife, and there has been no studies saying otherwise. The one that was commonly brought up about this was long placed to rest as not factual.

The only reason this is even being brought up is because of relgion and tradition, and both should not guide our government.

I dont think I'd care if I had gay parents. I know a person who does and its all the same. Hell half my teachers are gay/lesbian (in tha catholic school I mentioned) and I could give a flying fhk. Its just the way they are, doesnt change their capability of teaching us or anything.

no one wants to rebuttal my statement about gays having kids )


if gay people want them, make'm!

But isn't that like saying "if people want cats, make them"?

[quote350f3cd0b0="Allen626"][quote350f3cd0b0="kdollar"][quote350f3cd0b0="Allen626"][quote350f3cd0b0="kdollar"]im tellin u, marriage is for religions therefore if gays need legal rights to be married, give it a legal name and a separate doctrine......so they can get all their tax benefits and stuff, and they can only be allowed to adopt gay kids ( b/c gays are born gay!), im lookn for out for the kids they have already had it hard enough without their real parents, dont fuck up their lives more by giving them to some gay couple.[/quote350f3cd0b0]

Marriage is not only for religions.[/quote350f3cd0b0]

how can you say this?? you think its derived from the government? it is in all religions not just christianity either.

me and jump are good friends and we see different views there is no one ignorant here unless you want state ur view without any explanation, so i dont want to sound discrimantory heres my explanation i just think that their legal documents securing their lives together should have a different word than marriage.

the thing about marriage is grown adult stuff but kids cant make decisions, therefore the gov't should for kids under their care. and here is my point and its going to stated clearly......

if gays want kids..........make some.[/quote350f3cd0b0]

Marriage is for gov't and religions alike, but there are two differant definitions. Marriage is dictated by religion in the governmental process in the issue of gay marriage, and should not be.

"Marriage is a relationship between individuals" http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage

Marriage should be able to be between two men or women in government, because religious morales have nothing to do with the U.S. government. AKA Seperation of Church and State.

It is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS if two people of the same sex want to get together. They are not worse parents then a man and a wife, and there has been no studies saying otherwise. The one that was commonly brought up about this was long placed to rest as not factual.

The only reason this is even being brought up is because of relgion and tradition, and both should not guide our government.[/quote350f3cd0b0]


u think the government doesnt have religion in it, why does the dollar bill say in God we Trust??? could be any God, but for damn sure means religion.

"none of my business" its not ur right, this is a poll though and gays can be together, i dont give a shit......man and man, more women for me, woman and woman, can i watch? doesnt make a difference, but dont call it marriage the govt does and they got it from guess where, religion.....

what should guide are govt?? we gotta have some rules....morals..think that might derive from religion or did a person just think one day, i better not kill anyone ........its wrong.

lol jump ur funny, gimme something good to refute that was just dumb! you should thanks your parents for not being gay or u wouldnt exist and being scottish, b/c u have a badass accent and pulled a hot wife!

You say his rebuttal was dumb, yet you said "are government" instead of "our government"?

i was in a hurry, and yes i am dumb at grammar.........what i meant by his rebuttal is....a man and a woman can make babies, therefore they have responsibility to make them. so why cant a man and a man make babies or a woman and woman, we all know we cant make cats or cows, or frogs?? but a female cat and a male cat can make more cats.


so something must be correct there....

anyways im off to get drunk, hats off to everyone in the thread who debated, i dont have any harsh feelings towards anyone i was just statin and havin fun, i actually just met my first one last month and he was in my business fraternity.

lets keep some intellectual convo going, not so much " fuck gays" or "gays rule" ........peace

WOW This is a really open minded forum. I wish we were the ones who voted on all of those damn measures. This really made me smile, it's good seeing more than 50% supporting gay marriage )

[quoteb8305d5ba6="shamash"]WOW This is a really open minded forum. I wish we were the ones who voted on all of those damn measures. This really made me smile, it's good seeing more than 50% supporting gay marriage )[/quoteb8305d5ba6]

Yeah it is a pretty good argument I guess...

BTW I burned you on that auction. ;)

[quote83ad3b9ffa="shamash"]WOW This is a really open minded forum. I wish we were the ones who voted on all of those damn measures. This really made me smile, it's good seeing more than 50% supporting gay marriage )[/quote83ad3b9ffa]

shamash is happy... I acnt wait until I can vote... come 2007, youll hve a new voter upon you, just in time for the 2008 elections!

[quote352879620e="shamash"]WOW This is a really open minded forum. I wish we were the ones who voted on all of those damn measures. This really made me smile, it's good seeing more than 50% supporting gay marriage )[/quote352879620e]

There is ALOT of people that support GAY people (or people that says - Who cares, let them do w/e they want) and that is fine.

BUT I mean, lets say I take my children(s) to downtown (dinner or something like that) and two FUCKING gays are making out in front of them, I mean, who wants to see that.

[quote9668ed2f3e="cartrenroy"][quote9668ed2f3e="shamash"]WOW This is a really open minded forum. I wish we were the ones who voted on all of those damn measures. This really made me smile, it's good seeing more than 50% supporting gay marriage )[/quote9668ed2f3e]

There is ALOT of people that support GAY people (or people that says - Who cares, let them do w/e they want) and that is fine.

BUT I mean, lets say I take my children(s) to downtown (dinner or something like that) and two FUCKING gays are making out in front of them, I mean, who wants to see that.[/quote9668ed2f3e]

It's not like there's anything stopping them from doing it right now...

And by the way... What did you say your religion was?

[quote5c1a0608f8="J4320"][quote5c1a0608f8="shamash"]WOW This is a really open minded forum. I wish we were the ones who voted on all of those damn measures. This really made me smile, it's good seeing more than 50% supporting gay marriage )[/quote5c1a0608f8]

Yeah it is a pretty good argument I guess...

BTW I burned you on that auction. ;)[/quote5c1a0608f8]

Ahaha yeah I was like "SWEET Xmas present for a dollar instead of 5.99 from that crap place" but sadly you screwed me out of it cause i left home P


And cartrenroy, that's the same way people a lot of people feel about slutty girls making out with stupid guys on the street. It's really not that different.

I hate seeing anyone making out in public... PDAs are for the slutty and prostituting... like J4320 said, nothing is stopping them from doing so now..

[quoteb9b398a22d="shamash"][quoteb9b398a22d="J4320"][quoteb9b398a22d="shamash"]WOW This is a really open minded forum. I wish we were the ones who voted on all of those damn measures. This really made me smile, it's good seeing more than 50% supporting gay marriage )[/quoteb9b398a22d]

Yeah it is a pretty good argument I guess...

BTW I burned you on that auction. ;)[/quoteb9b398a22d]
[bb9b398a22d]
Ahaha yeah I was like "SWEET Xmas present for a dollar instead of 5.99 from that crap place" but sadly you screwed me out of it cause i left home [/bb9b398a22d]P


And cartrenroy, that's the same way people a lot of people feel about slutty girls making out with stupid guys on the street. It's really not that different.[/quoteb9b398a22d]

Lol... I partly wanted it as a cheap Christmas present and I partly wanted it for more feedback.

$1.45 for good ebay feedback and a cool Christmas present = Really good deal.


D

do you guys actually know what the present is?

[quote2a51069288="cartrenroy"][quote2a51069288="shamash"]WOW This is a really open minded forum. I wish we were the ones who voted on all of those damn measures. This really made me smile, it's good seeing more than 50% supporting gay marriage )[/quote2a51069288]

There is ALOT of people that support GAY people (or people that says - Who cares, let them do w/e they want) and that is fine.

BUT I mean, lets say I take my children(s) to downtown (dinner or something like that) and two FUCKING gays are making out in front of them, I mean, who wants to see that.[/quote2a51069288]

Just for grins, humor us with what age bracket you fall into?

10-11 years old or 12-13 years old

I'm guessing 16.

why 16? I'm 16!

i'm 16 too//

freeipods

i mean 18

I meant no offense, but I just had a feeling that he was 16. Not sure why, but nothing to do with maturity or his comments here.

[quoteff54e7dc17="whatisntseen"][quoteff54e7dc17="ditto_mark"]i vote no.[/quoteff54e7dc17]

why?

It isnt going to affect you at all, on the other hand, it might effect me. Not in the sense that I may have a civil union with another man, but that my sister is in fact gay and she should have every right to have the same right s straight people in terms of unity.

WOOT FOR MULTI-PAGE DEBATE!![/quoteff54e7dc17]

Marriage is defined as the union between a man and woman.
If they want something for themselves, then thats fine with me.
Like..."marriage2"...

There's such thing as a separation of Church and State, and if marriage gave you no special rights in the USA, that would be acceptable, however, it does, so equality must be there.

[quote812639c0c2="shamash"]There's such thing as a separation of Church and State, and if marriage gave you no special rights in the USA, that would be acceptable, however, it does, so equality must be there.[/quote812639c0c2]

i'd prefer seperate but equal. shrug

[quote72c0436e49="ditto_mark"][quote72c0436e49="whatisntseen"][quote72c0436e49="ditto_mark"]i vote no.[/quote72c0436e49]

why?

It isnt going to affect you at all, on the other hand, it might effect me. Not in the sense that I may have a civil union with another man, but that my sister is in fact gay and she should have every right to have the same right s straight people in terms of unity.

WOOT FOR MULTI-PAGE DEBATE!![/quote72c0436e49]

Marriage is defined as the union between a man and woman.
If they want something for themselves, then thats fine with me.
Like..."marriage2"...[/quote72c0436e49]

Marriage is only defined as a union between a man and a woman because those are the only kind of unions that have been allowed.

In 50 years time (or a lot sooner hopefully), the term marriage will mean anyone who gets married to anyone else.

It used to be illegal for a black man to marry a white woman.

[quote4841913fb6="ditto_mark"][quote4841913fb6="shamash"]There's such thing as a separation of Church and State, and if marriage gave you no special rights in the USA, that would be acceptable, however, it does, so equality must be there.[/quote4841913fb6]

i'd prefer seperate but equal. shrug[/quote4841913fb6]

So do segregationists.

[quoteada6710af6="ditto_mark"][quoteada6710af6="shamash"]There's such thing as a separation of Church and State, and if marriage gave you no special rights in the USA, that would be acceptable, however, it does, so equality must be there.[/quoteada6710af6]

i'd prefer seperate but equal. shrug[/quoteada6710af6]

Good point, separate but equal has been a rousing success in the US - I'm sure it would be again.

[quote759f04ca56="doylnea"]Good point, separate but equal has been a rousing success in the US - I'm sure it would be again.[/quote759f04ca56]
Going 400+ years strong.

[quote3f71b6cf24="kdollar"][quote3f71b6cf24="Allen626"][quote3f71b6cf24="kdollar"][quote3f71b6cf24="Allen626"][quote3f71b6cf24="kdollar"]im tellin u, marriage is for religions therefore if gays need legal rights to be married, give it a legal name and a separate doctrine......so they can get all their tax benefits and stuff, and they can only be allowed to adopt gay kids ( b/c gays are born gay!), im lookn for out for the kids they have already had it hard enough without their real parents, dont fuck up their lives more by giving them to some gay couple.[/quote3f71b6cf24]

Marriage is not only for religions.[/quote3f71b6cf24]

how can you say this?? you think its derived from the government? it is in all religions not just christianity either.

me and jump are good friends and we see different views there is no one ignorant here unless you want state ur view without any explanation, so i dont want to sound discrimantory heres my explanation i just think that their legal documents securing their lives together should have a different word than marriage.

the thing about marriage is grown adult stuff but kids cant make decisions, therefore the gov't should for kids under their care. and here is my point and its going to stated clearly......

if gays want kids..........make some.[/quote3f71b6cf24]

Marriage is for gov't and religions alike, but there are two differant definitions. Marriage is dictated by religion in the governmental process in the issue of gay marriage, and should not be.

"Marriage is a relationship between individuals" http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage

Marriage should be able to be between two men or women in government, because religious morales have nothing to do with the U.S. government. AKA Seperation of Church and State.

It is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS if two people of the same sex want to get together. They are not worse parents then a man and a wife, and there has been no studies saying otherwise. The one that was commonly brought up about this was long placed to rest as not factual.

The only reason this is even being brought up is because of relgion and tradition, and both should not guide our government.[/quote3f71b6cf24]


u think the government doesnt have religion in it, why does the dollar bill say in God we Trust??? could be any God, but for damn sure means religion.

"none of my business" its not ur right, this is a poll though and gays can be together, i dont give a shit......man and man, more women for me, woman and woman, can i watch? doesnt make a difference, but dont call it marriage the govt does and they got it from guess where, religion.....

what should guide are govt?? we gotta have some rules....morals..think that might derive from religion or did a person just think one day, i better not kill anyone ........its wrong.

lol jump ur funny, gimme something good to refute that was just dumb! you should thanks your parents for not being gay or u wouldnt exist and being scottish, b/c u have a badass accent and pulled a hot wife![/quote3f71b6cf24]

We would be better off without religion, and it is not a guide to our government. Religion gets in the way and has some morales, yes, but so does common sense. Religion did not "make up" morales, and we do not derive morales from religious text. Although, yes they are there.

The coin should not have religious refrences in it, but that is a debate for another time. I am not even sure why you brought it up, you are just avoiding the main subject and veering from the path scrambling for something which you can not find.

This should not be a Religious debate either, but you are trying to make it one. Religion has nothing to do with gay marriage, well it should not but as we can see it does. Like they sayjumpsays, ignorance is very much present in this discussion.

[quote3be8f1c8e2="ditto_mark"][quote3be8f1c8e2="doylnea"]Good point, separate but equal has been a rousing success in the US - I'm sure it would be again.[/quote3be8f1c8e2]
Going 400+ years strong.[/quote3be8f1c8e2]

So the Native Americans had a segregationist society as well where the horses had to drink out of different rivers than the people?

[quote696bfa99ca="Allen626"][quote696bfa99ca="kdollar"][quote696bfa99ca="Allen626"][quote696bfa99ca="kdollar"][quote696bfa99ca="Allen626"][quote696bfa99ca="kdollar"]im tellin u, marriage is for religions therefore if gays need legal rights to be married, give it a legal name and a separate doctrine......so they can get all their tax benefits and stuff, and they can only be allowed to adopt gay kids ( b/c gays are born gay!), im lookn for out for the kids they have already had it hard enough without their real parents, dont fuck up their lives more by giving them to some gay couple.[/quote696bfa99ca]

Marriage is not only for religions.[/quote696bfa99ca]

how can you say this?? you think its derived from the government? it is in all religions not just christianity either.

me and jump are good friends and we see different views there is no one ignorant here unless you want state ur view without any explanation, so i dont want to sound discrimantory heres my explanation i just think that their legal documents securing their lives together should have a different word than marriage.

the thing about marriage is grown adult stuff but kids cant make decisions, therefore the gov't should for kids under their care. and here is my point and its going to stated clearly......

if gays want kids..........make some.[/quote696bfa99ca]

Marriage is for gov't and religions alike, but there are two differant definitions. Marriage is dictated by religion in the governmental process in the issue of gay marriage, and should not be.

"Marriage is a relationship between individuals" http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage

Marriage should be able to be between two men or women in government, because religious morales have nothing to do with the U.S. government. AKA Seperation of Church and State.

It is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS if two people of the same sex want to get together. They are not worse parents then a man and a wife, and there has been no studies saying otherwise. The one that was commonly brought up about this was long placed to rest as not factual.

The only reason this is even being brought up is because of relgion and tradition, and both should not guide our government.[/quote696bfa99ca]


u think the government doesnt have religion in it, why does the dollar bill say in God we Trust??? could be any God, but for damn sure means religion.

"none of my business" its not ur right, this is a poll though and gays can be together, i dont give a shit......man and man, more women for me, woman and woman, can i watch? doesnt make a difference, but dont call it marriage the govt does and they got it from guess where, religion.....

what should guide are govt?? we gotta have some rules....morals..think that might derive from religion or did a person just think one day, i better not kill anyone ........its wrong.

lol jump ur funny, gimme something good to refute that was just dumb! you should thanks your parents for not being gay or u wouldnt exist and being scottish, b/c u have a badass accent and pulled a hot wife![/quote696bfa99ca]

We would be better off without religion, and it is not a guide to our government. Religion gets in the way and has some morales, yes, but so does common sense. Religion did not "make up" morales, and we do not derive morales from religious text. Although, yes they are there.

The coin should not have religious refrences in it, but that is a debate for another time. I am not even sure why you brought it up, you are just avoiding the main subject and veering from the path scrambling for something which you can not find.

This should not be a Religious debate either, but you are trying to make it one. Religion has nothing to do with gay marriage, well it should not but as we can see it does. Like they sayjumpsays, ignorance is very much present in this discussion.[/quote696bfa99ca]

ok you think we would be better off w/o religion, yet the majority people have religion in their life, therefore it interferes with gov't which controls gay marriage being passed or not passed. do you agree a majority of the world has some kind of religion, muslim,christianity, buddhism, hinduism, whatever......

and if they didnt follow their religion, they would follow common sense....
would you gladly explain common sense to the people and let them know who made it........???? if a majority of society stole, well its common sense to steal.....

the word marriage "People who advocate gay marriage might like to consult their dictionary on this subject. The word marriage means the acquisition of a man. It comes from the Latin word mas which means a man. So the latin marita means a woman who has a man. Therefore two females cannot be said to be married, unless they both have a man also, in which case they would be married to those men. One could argue that a man can acquire a man, but since they are men already, this seems a bit superfluous. The concept of marriage is that a woman without a man acquires a man. A man cannot be said to be without a man. Clearly marriage is not a symmetric action. Marriage is something which happens to the woman. The woman is married by the man. The way out of this problem is preferably to not try to redefine words, but rather to find another name for the legal instrument which homosexuals are looking for. Rewriting the dictionary definitions for political purposes is always a bad idea. It's better to invent new words for new concepts. Otherwise the English language which we speak will become incomprehensible to future generations -- and even to the current generation."

you say i strayed off the subject, but i clearly stated about 20 times in this post, if gays want to get married, give it another name! nothin religious in this statement

thanks for listening, and were u implyin im ignorant??

[quote9e5576b014="kdollar"][quote9e5576b014="Allen626"][quote9e5576b014="kdollar"][quote9e5576b014="Allen626"][quote9e5576b014="kdollar"][quote9e5576b014="Allen626"][quote9e5576b014="kdollar"]im tellin u, marriage is for religions therefore if gays need legal rights to be married, give it a legal name and a separate doctrine......so they can get all their tax benefits and stuff, and they can only be allowed to adopt gay kids ( b/c gays are born gay!), im lookn for out for the kids they have already had it hard enough without their real parents, dont fuck up their lives more by giving them to some gay couple.[/quote9e5576b014]

Marriage is not only for religions.[/quote9e5576b014]

how can you say this?? you think its derived from the government? it is in all religions not just christianity either.

me and jump are good friends and we see different views there is no one ignorant here unless you want state ur view without any explanation, so i dont want to sound discrimantory heres my explanation i just think that their legal documents securing their lives together should have a different word than marriage.

the thing about marriage is grown adult stuff but kids cant make decisions, therefore the gov't should for kids under their care. and here is my point and its going to stated clearly......

if gays want kids..........make some.[/quote9e5576b014]

Marriage is for gov't and religions alike, but there are two differant definitions. Marriage is dictated by religion in the governmental process in the issue of gay marriage, and should not be.

"Marriage is a relationship between individuals" http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage

Marriage should be able to be between two men or women in government, because religious morales have nothing to do with the U.S. government. AKA Seperation of Church and State.

It is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS if two people of the same sex want to get together. They are not worse parents then a man and a wife, and there has been no studies saying otherwise. The one that was commonly brought up about this was long placed to rest as not factual.

The only reason this is even being brought up is because of relgion and tradition, and both should not guide our government.[/quote9e5576b014]


u think the government doesnt have religion in it, why does the dollar bill say in God we Trust??? could be any God, but for damn sure means religion.

"none of my business" its not ur right, this is a poll though and gays can be together, i dont give a shit......man and man, more women for me, woman and woman, can i watch? doesnt make a difference, but dont call it marriage the govt does and they got it from guess where, religion.....

what should guide are govt?? we gotta have some rules....morals..think that might derive from religion or did a person just think one day, i better not kill anyone ........its wrong.

lol jump ur funny, gimme something good to refute that was just dumb! you should thanks your parents for not being gay or u wouldnt exist and being scottish, b/c u have a badass accent and pulled a hot wife![/quote9e5576b014]

We would be better off without religion, and it is not a guide to our government. Religion gets in the way and has some morales, yes, but so does common sense. Religion did not "make up" morales, and we do not derive morales from religious text. Although, yes they are there.

The coin should not have religious refrences in it, but that is a debate for another time. I am not even sure why you brought it up, you are just avoiding the main subject and veering from the path scrambling for something which you can not find.

This should not be a Religious debate either, but you are trying to make it one. Religion has nothing to do with gay marriage, well it should not but as we can see it does. Like they sayjumpsays, ignorance is very much present in this discussion.[/quote9e5576b014]

ok you think we would be better off w/o religion, yet the majority people have religion in their life, therefore it interferes with gov't which controls gay marriage being passed or not passed. do you agree a majority of the world has some kind of religion, muslim,christianity, buddhism, hinduism, whatever......

and if they didnt follow their religion, they would follow common sense....
would you gladly explain common sense to the people and let them know who made it........???? if a majority of society stole, well its common sense to steal.....

the word marriage "People who advocate gay marriage might like to consult their dictionary on this subject. The word marriage means the acquisition of a man. It comes from the Latin word mas which means a man. So the latin marita means a woman who has a man. Therefore two females cannot be said to be married, unless they both have a man also, in which case they would be married to those men. One could argue that a man can acquire a man, but since they are men already, this seems a bit superfluous. The concept of marriage is that a woman without a man acquires a man. A man cannot be said to be without a man. Clearly marriage is not a symmetric action. Marriage is something which happens to the woman. The woman is married by the man. The way out of this problem is preferably to not try to redefine words, but rather to find another name for the legal instrument which homosexuals are looking for. Rewriting the dictionary definitions for political purposes is always a bad idea. It's better to invent new words for new concepts. Otherwise the English language which we speak will become incomprehensible to future generations -- and even to the current generation."

you say i strayed off the subject, but i clearly stated about 20 times in this post, if gays want to get married, give it another name! nothin religious in this statement

thanks for listening, and were u implyin im ignorant??[/quote9e5576b014]

OK, lets gays to get "united" and we can call it a united instead of married. And everywhere where it says marriage we can now say marriage/united. And nowhere will gays couples that are united left out if married couples can do it. Wait that is the exact same thing as marriage? So why don't we just call it marriage? Because the latin definition is incorrect? Who fucking cares.

[quote671ff39b3e="doylnea"][quote671ff39b3e="ditto_mark"][quote671ff39b3e="doylnea"]Good point, separate but equal has been a rousing success in the US - I'm sure it would be again.[/quote671ff39b3e]
Going 400+ years strong.[/quote671ff39b3e]

So the Native Americans had a segregationist society as well where the horses had to drink out of different rivers than the people?[/quote671ff39b3e]

The Native Americans didn't allow for gay marriage either.
Who said anything about horsies?

[quote4e442f112a="ditto_mark"][quote4e442f112a="doylnea"][quote4e442f112a="ditto_mark"][quote4e442f112a="doylnea"]Good point, separate but equal has been a rousing success in the US - I'm sure it would be again.[/quote4e442f112a]
Going 400+ years strong.[/quote4e442f112a]

So the Native Americans had a segregationist society as well where the horses had to drink out of different rivers than the people?[/quote4e442f112a]

The Native Americans didn't allow for gay marriage either.
Who said anything about horsies?[/quote4e442f112a]

NA didn't have horses until we brought them over right?

I'm following you Allen. j/k but I think the English brought them over and left them behind when guys riding them died and stuff and then plains indians got them.

what do indians and horses have to do with gay marriage??

gay marriage should remain illegal.. it destroys the sanctity of marriage.. enough said.

(I know I'm going to have a bunch of liberal crap crammed down my throat for the remark I just made, but I honestly don't care.)

/me crams a bunch of liberal crap down h3x's throat for the remark he just made.

[quoteca2e699686="theysayjump"]/me crams a bunch of liberal crap down h3x's throat for the remark he just made.[/quoteca2e699686]

what he said

libeal crap is actually chocolate.

seperate but equal, like black people using different potties and drinking different water
sounds like a grand idea
no, a fabulous!!!! idea.

[quote722c78a502="ditto_mark"][quote722c78a502="doylnea"][quote722c78a502="ditto_mark"][quote722c78a502="doylnea"]Good point, separate but equal has been a rousing success in the US - I'm sure it would be again.[/quote722c78a502]
Going 400+ years strong.[/quote722c78a502]

So the Native Americans had a segregationist society as well where the horses had to drink out of different rivers than the people?[/quote722c78a502]

The Native Americans didn't allow for gay marriage either.
Who said anything about horsies?[/quote722c78a502]

C'mon, you're smarter than this. I've debated with you in the past.

Native Americans DID allow for same-sex marriage - it was called a two-spirit marriage.

[quote7022c70ee5="h3x"]gay marriage should remain illegal.. it destroys the sanctity of marriage.. enough said.[/quote7022c70ee5]

I seriously hope you are joking. The sanctity of marriage argument is null and void. The divorce rate in this country is somewhere between 40 and 50%.

I think Chris Rock put the issue of gay marriage best

[quote7022c70ee5]People always say we can't have gay marriage because marriage is a sacred institution. No it's not! Not in America! Not with 'Who Wants to Marry a Millionaire' and 'The Bachelor' and 'Who Wants to Marry a Midget.' ... gay people have a right to be as miserable as anybody else.[/quote7022c70ee5]

And your complaint about "liberal crap" just shows that you get more of your personal opinions from Fox than from your house of worship. Stop trying to tie this back to politics. It shouldn't be there in the first place, no matter which side of this argument that you fall on.

this thread is gay.

If you dont have anything to contribute to the thread why'd you even bother to post. shrug

[quote42db29d0bc="kposse77"][quote42db29d0bc="h3x"]gay marriage should remain illegal.. it destroys the sanctity of marriage.. enough said.[/quote42db29d0bc]

The divorce rate in this country is somewhere between 40 and 50%.

[/quote42db29d0bc]

I remember reading it was around 60% yay for America cheer

The best solution to the "Gay Question" in my opinion would be for them to be able to sign a piece of paper giving them most of the benefits real married couples get and there should also be a law barring them for displaying affection in public.

I think most of the christian right would be at peace with that resolution as well D

I have no problem with homosexual unions. They are people just like everyone else and therefore, have the right to live their lives like anyone else.

[quote72ca91dadd="JUNIOR6886"]
I remember reading it was around 60% yay for America cheer

The best solution to the "Gay Question" in my opinion would be for them to be able to sign a piece of paper giving them most of the benefits real married couples get and there should also be a law barring them for displaying affection in public.

I think most of the christian right would be at peace with that resolution as well D[/quote72ca91dadd]

Just what we need, more laws taking away liberties. Let's call that the Ewww Gross Act and also make it illegal to eat food that has fallen on the floor.

What a dipshit comment.