Gun Control

Haven't had a decent discussion on here for a while so I thought I'd bring this little gem up.

I'm for gun control. Firearms are illegal in the UK which may have something to do with my point of view but since I came here it kinda scared me how "gung ho" alot of people here are about guns.

I've never seen a real gun, never touched one and the extent of my firearms experience is them being fired near my house, drive-by's, robberies etc.

The Second Ammendment, the way I see it, means it's a Militias right, not an individuals right to keep and bear arms and even if it is an individuals right, it still seems ridiculously easy to acquire a firearm in this country, which leads to all sorts of problems, namely High School Shootings.

Funny bout that cuz in syrian high schools they have an elective where all you do is learn about guns and go out to firing ranges and learn how to shoot

Gun Control doesn't stop the bad guys from getting guns. That's all I have to say.

[quote43ca78c5aa="stackmjwiz"]Gun Control doesn't stop the bad guys from getting guns. That's all I have to say.[/quote43ca78c5aa]

You have to think about kids and idiots as well though.

Gun control means using both hands D

No hunting in the UK?

I'm not a hunter, but only thing I can even see a purpose for guns is hunting. It's a hobby. I'll be damned if the government takes away my porn... I mean computer.

[quote2e4f927783="bballp6699"]No hunting in the UK?

I'm not a hunter, but only thing I can even see a purpose for guns is hunting. It's a hobby. I'll be damned if the government takes away my porn... I mean computer.[/quote2e4f927783]

Same thing. wink

There's hunting yeah, although Fox hunting was just banned not long ago. I see no reason for guns other than hunting either.

Well besides maybe one-on-one cowboy duels.

[quote5acff60f5d]I see no reason for guns other than hunting either.[/quote5acff60f5d]

Self defense?

Take a look at this (taken from Washington Times)

[quote5acff60f5d]Did you know defensive gun use prevents far more crimes than the police? National polls of defensive gun use by private citizens indicate that as many as 3.6 million crimes annually are prevented by armed individuals. In 98 percent of the cases, the armed citizen merely has to brandish his weapon. As many as 400,000 people each year believe they saved a life by being armed[/quote5acff60f5d]

[quote7cf9afb987="stackmjwiz"][quote7cf9afb987]I see no reason for guns other than hunting either.[/quote7cf9afb987]

Self defense?[/quote7cf9afb987]

How did people defend themselves before the advent of guns?


[quote7cf9afb987]Take a look at this (taken from Washington Times)

[quote7cf9afb987]Did you know defensive gun use prevents far more crimes than the police? National polls of defensive gun use by private citizens indicate that as many as 3.6 million crimes annually are prevented by armed individuals. In 98 percent of the cases, the armed citizen merely has to brandish his weapon. As many as 400,000 people each year believe they saved a life by being armed[/quote7cf9afb987]
[/quote7cf9afb987]
400,000 people [i7cf9afb987][b7cf9afb987]believe[/b7cf9afb987][/i7cf9afb987] they saved a life by being armed? Is 400,000 people believing in something better than around 30,000 firearms related deaths each year in this country?

Im for partial gun control. You can't just let everyone who wants a gun to have one.I support required background checks. As mentioned earlier in the thread, guns can be used for self defense. I definitely gonna own a gun as soon as im 21 D

[quotee92c77f599="theysayjump"][quotee92c77f599="stackmjwiz"][quotee92c77f599]I see no reason for guns other than hunting either.[/quotee92c77f599]

Self defense?[/quotee92c77f599]

How did people defend themselves before the advent of guns?[/quotee92c77f599]

People need them for self defense now, becuase the "bad-guys" aren't using bow-and-arrows anymore. wink

Switzerland allows anyone to own a gun.
Guess what, I think the lowest crime rate in the world, wonder why..

Look at uk, no guns and prolly the most likely place to get stabbed up in the world, along with mugged.

The only thing that keeps the government in check is armed citizens, before guns, no1 had guns so we were still on the same playing field.

Even with the guns they allow, we still don't have much of a chance to really put up a fight. Maybe thats why they don't care what most of us think, and they do what they want.(patriot act, spying, illegal imprisonments, selling off of ports, and important infrastructure, etc..)

It is an American right to own a gun to protect yourself, family, posessions and if the government in charge gets out of line....

If most of us knew the bill of rights, and constitution as well as we know the TOS of some of these sites, I think America would be alot better off.

hunting, home defense from robbers, think its only fair you have the same fire power as someone trying to rape your wife or steal your children. just my dollar minus 98 cents though

[quoteeab36bb6ba="theysayjump"]Haven't had a decent discussion on here for a while so I thought I'd bring this little gem up.

I'm for gun control. Firearms are illegal in the UK which may have something to do with my point of view but since I came here it kinda scared me how "gung ho" alot of people here are about guns.

I've never seen a real gun, never touched one and the extent of my firearms experience is them being fired near my house, drive-by's, robberies etc.

The Second Ammendment, the way I see it, means it's a Militias right, not an individuals right to keep and bear arms and even if it is an individuals right, it still seems ridiculously easy to acquire a firearm in this country, which leads to all sorts of problems, namely High School Shootings.[/quoteeab36bb6ba]


Now the enitre reason that was included in the constitution has to do wtih Americans wanting to legally protect themselves from British soldiers. Following the revolutionary War and the creation for our government,

The People wanted the right to bear simply because of the abuses brought on by British soldiers invading private property and using them as quarters.

Americans put high value on personal property and privacy if not always addressed in constitutional writing.

Lets look at the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, [beab36bb6ba]the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed[/beab36bb6ba].

Amendment III

No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Now 2 just enforces 3 for every individual.

Although I'm against illegal drug sales I have to say that owning a gun is a constituitonal right given to us by our fore fathers.

Forgot to add, laws are for the normal Joe..

Criminals don't follow the laws.

Neither do the Corporate Elite who run this country.(tax rebates are against the law, giving one company a free ride, etc..)

[quote71f084d0bc="nextlevel"]Switzerland allows anyone to own a gun.
Guess what, I think the lowest crime rate in the world, wonder why..

Look at uk, no guns and prolly the most likely place to get stabbed up in the world, along with mugged.

The only thing that keeps the government in check is armed citizens, before guns, no1 had guns so we were still on the same playing field.

Even with the guns they allow, we still don't have much of a chance to really put up a fight. Maybe thats why they don't care what most of us think, and they do what they want.(patriot act, spying, illegal imprisonments, selling off of ports, and important infrastructure, etc..)

It is an American right to own a gun to protect yourself, family, posessions and if the government in charge gets out of line....

If most of us knew the bill of rights, and constitution as well as we know the TOS of some of these sites, I think America would be alot better off.[/quote71f084d0bc]

I lived in the UK my whole life and was never mugged, stabbed, shot or know anyone who was or saw anyone who was. I'm assuming you're making that statement based on statistics or an article in a paper?

As for Switzerland, it's actually the law for males between a certain age to own and have a gun in their house. Their lax gun laws don't mean that nobody kills anyone else, or tries to rob their houses just because everyone might have a gun. It's the society and environment that you're brought up in that has a great deal to do with the cause of gun crimes as opposed to "lets just arm everyone and nobody will want to kill or rob or rape anymore".

The Second Amendment doesn't say "It is an American right to own a gun to protect yourself, family, posessions etc". It says "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

To keep and bear arms is one thing but to keep and bear arms, walk into a High School and shoot and kill innocent children, that's a step too far don't you think? But hey, The Constitution says it's OK so it must be!

I've never used a gun either but i think it's stupid to take away any right to own a gun. The same people saying if you made marijunna legal you'd take away the crime are the same ones saying take away the guns. It'll have the same effect though.

Imagine owning your own business and not being able to keep a gun under the counter in case you got robbed.

The suspiscion alone probably deters a lot of robberys

i am against someone needing a fucking automatic assualt rifle. No one needs these in their homes, not even for keepsake or just in case. This isnt protecting you any, and only stands to fall into the wrong hands(most likely a kid, or a crazy person that isn't a criminal but just might lose it)


if i had to choose between all guns banned or no guns banned id choose none though

[quote62cb2e382c="justinag06"]
i am against someone needing a fucking automatic assualt rifle. [/quote62cb2e382c]

haha funny but true. there's no need for like 90% of the guns. a guy owning a handgun to protect his family in case he gets robbed in the middle of the night, or a late night gas store clerk having one under the counter in case is fine. there's really no purpose other then killing people for 90% of the guns made

then next Amendment should be to "reverse" the 2nd Amendment. sort of like how the 22nd Amendment does away with the 18h..

[quoteec17216d38]there's really no purpose other then killing people for 90% of the guns made [/quoteec17216d38]

roll

[quote68298aaf05="theysayjump"]
To keep and bear arms is one thing but to keep and bear arms, walk into a High School and shoot and kill innocent children, that's a step too far don't you think? But hey, The Constitution says it's OK so it must be![/quote68298aaf05]

Just searched the constitution and I couldnt find that part about being able to shoot up your hs. Not sure but I think that would be illegal.

Guns aren't going anywhere. Not a pacifist country.

[quote360c1b3559="stackmjwiz"][quote360c1b3559]there's really no purpose other then killing people for 90% of the guns made [/quote360c1b3559]

roll[/quote360c1b3559]

i mean am i wrong? all you really need is a pistol for protection, and a nice PP7 will do that for you 8)....i mean what's the purpose of a AK47 if not to kill someone?

what happens when aliens invade and guns were banned?? exactly.

I go shooting with my dad, sister and brother all the time. We go out to the ranges about once a year. Pistols, and shotguns mainly. Personally I think that when used responsibly guns are perfectly ok. I'm not saying that everybody is responsible though.

And if guns were outlawed then only outlaws would have guns.

[quote944829e6bc="kdollar"]what happens when aliens invade and guns were banned?? exactly.[/quote944829e6bc]

wasn't that an episode of the simpsons?

http/" alt=""/img153.imageshack.us/img="153/8404/simpson4ph.gif[" alt=""/img944829e6bc]

[quotee2d54d4b20="justinag06"][quotee2d54d4b20="kdollar"]what happens when aliens invade and guns were banned?? exactly.[/quotee2d54d4b20]

wasn't that an episode of the simpsons?

http/" alt=""/img153.imageshack.us/img="153/8404/simpson4ph.gif[" alt=""/imge2d54d4b20][/quotee2d54d4b20]
I believe it was actually, and then they use a board with a nail in it or something? Yeah, good times.

[quotebdd3b12767="good2speed"][quotebdd3b12767="theysayjump"]
To keep and bear arms is one thing but to keep and bear arms, walk into a High School and shoot and kill innocent children, that's a step too far don't you think? But hey, The Constitution says it's OK so it must be![/quotebdd3b12767]

Just searched the constitution and I couldnt find that part about being able to shoot up your hs. Not sure but I think that would be illegal.

Guns aren't going anywhere. Not a pacifist country.[/quotebdd3b12767]

I'm saying that The Constitution says it's ok to keep and bear arms which is what it should be and nothing more. People take that as a right to do whatever the fuck they want to.

I'm assuming you don't (so correct me if I'm wrong) but when you go to buy a gun if you had to give a reason why you're buying it, how many people would say they were buying it because it was their Constituational right? Then how many of the people who give that as a reason would actually be buying it for that reason?

We live in too much of a violent society (video games, movies, books etc.) for guns to only be used for protection.

[quote0eff0cd713="theysayjump"][quote0eff0cd713="good2speed"][quote0eff0cd713="theysayjump"]
To keep and bear arms is one thing but to keep and bear arms, walk into a High School and shoot and kill innocent children, that's a step too far don't you think? But hey, The Constitution says it's OK so it must be![/quote0eff0cd713]

Just searched the constitution and I couldnt find that part about being able to shoot up your hs. Not sure but I think that would be illegal.

Guns aren't going anywhere. Not a pacifist country.[/quote0eff0cd713]

[b0eff0cd713]I'm saying that The Constitution says it's ok to keep and bear arms [/b0eff0cd713]which is what it should be and nothing more. People take that as a right to do whatever the fuck they want to.

I'm assuming you don't (so correct me if I'm wrong) but when you go to buy a gun if you had to give a reason why you're buying it, how many people would say they were buying it because it was their Constituational right? Then how many of the people who give that as a reason would actually be buying it for that reason?

We live in too much of a violent society (video games, movies, books etc.) for guns to only be used for protection.[/quote0eff0cd713]

To keep and bear arms for what purpose?

Exactly. Does it define a purpose for which they are to be used? No.

Is it commonly regarded to mean "I have the right to buy a gun to protect myself, my family and my land"? Yes.

Is that what it's solely used for? No.

[quoteac05d404c2="theysayjump"]

I'm saying that The Constitution [bac05d404c2]says it's ok to keep and bear arms which is what it should be and nothing more[/bac05d404c2]. People take that as a right to do whatever the fuck they want to.

I'm assuming you don't (so correct me if I'm wrong) but when you go to buy a gun if you had to give a reason why you're buying it, how many people would say they were buying it because it was their Constituational right? [bac05d404c2]Then how many of the people who give that as a reason would actually be buying it for that reason[/bac05d404c2]?

We live in too much of a violent society (video games, movies, books etc.) for guns to only be used for protection.[/quoteac05d404c2]

im confused with you here.

Are you saying if i own a gun and get attacked and use it in self defense that I am abusing my right in the constitution?

Or are you saying if I buy a rifle and go hunting, and bag a deer im in violation?

Or is it still the school shooting thing?

thing is thats a minor issue on the big scale, if those kids didnt have guns then they would have only had their homemade bombs i mean, outlawing guns isn't going to stop fanatics like that.

Damnit, I propose we outlaw knives.

http//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/lincolnshire/3586978.stm


In Britain, where guns are outlawed, people are still being murdered and the blame is just being switched from one weapon to another.....

Know what'll happen next? Of course you do, then people will start getting killed with bats or clubs, chainsaws, forks, spears, swords, hit'n'run attacks, etc, etc, etc, because there are an infinite number of ways to injure and kill people and when one is taken away, human beings just move on to the next one.

That's how it was, how it is, and how it always will be. The weapons may change, but that doesn't matter because people who intend to harm their fellow human beings are the problem, not the weapons themselves.

[quote60459f753f="theysayjump"]Exactly. Does it define a purpose for which they are to be used? No.

Is it commonly regarded to mean "I have the right to buy a gun to protect myself, my family and my land"? Yes.

Is that what it's solely used for? No.[/quote60459f753f]

Well no its not used for its intended purpose all the time. But neither are a lot of things.

Lets take driving. Some people drive to fast, with suspended or revoked licenses, under the influence, and recklessly....

There are laws out there though to prevent reckless behavior.

The reality is for the most part people don't fire their own registered weapons to kill. Most if not all of the shootings occur where the defendant is using a gun that has been stolen. I'm not completely up to date with ballistics technology but I'm sure it would be a bad idea to kill someone with a registered gun you own. Now how they may be getting those guns is up for debate and I dont feel the burden of elaborating.

Most killings occur in inner cities where guns are purchased illegally.

[quoteb241d5decb]Most killings occur in inner cities where guns are purchased illegally.[/quoteb241d5decb]

Or stolen.

......
.....


Thus the constitution may be in play for individual's the rights to guns but there are many local, state, federal, int'l laws set forth that extremely prohibit the use of a weapon in a harmful civilian act

goin to watch Lost be back later

I'm for gun control. I'm not for the elimination of personal guns altogether (eg the uk). Our gun control in this country is fucking horrible and there is no sane reason for it.

Anything semi automatic should be an illegal weapon. There is no need for this. Obviously all automatic weapons should also be illegal. This leaves people who want to protect themselves rifles, shotguns and handguns. That's enough to hunt with as well (if you're into that, I find it disturbing to kill things for pleasure)

The waiting period should be increased to 10 days or so and a certification to own a gun should be required which includes knowing how properly store guns and use guns.

You should never be allowed a gun in public... and the highway counts as public (stupid fucking texas laws)

All guns should be configured with a locking device where you must enter a keycode or something to use it. This prevents your kid from finding your gun and pointing it at his best friend or shooting it straight up in the air. It's not a perfect solution but it's a necessary one.

and someone please make the libertarian in this thread stand in the corner.

why should the responsible people suffer b/c the idiots and lowlifes wanna kill people, just like the person said above then ur gonna ban knives, spoons, and have to send your kids to school in bubble wrap.

Personally i think we should be able to bear arms to a certain extent and we should have some sort of bill making it harder for a person with kids to get a gun permit

[quotec4bf531118="syriandoode"]Personally i think we should be able to bear arms to a certain extent and we should have some sort of bill making it harder for a person with kids to get a gun permit[/quotec4bf531118]

What only people without kids should have guns?

No they should start punishing the parents that help kids easily access the guns. A safe is a good place. Locked room maybe. If a kid uses a parent's weapon which is left in plane site then punish the parent.

Ok I voted for no gun control. Here are my reasons

Guns dont kill people, people kill people. (however I think they should be taxed out the ass

2nd all the taxes should go to help the poor, the ones most likely to have to revert to the use of a gun for income.

3rd I am against anything that enables this country 100% power. I armed country keeps them from totally changing to a kingdom.

[quotee2defc2767="stackmjwiz"]Damnit, I propose we outlaw knives.

http//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/lincolnshire/3586978.stm


In Britain, where guns are outlawed, people are still being murdered and the blame is just being switched from one weapon to another.....

Know what'll happen next? Of course you do, then people will start getting killed with bats or clubs, chainsaws, forks, spears, swords, hit'n'run attacks, etc, etc, etc, because there are an infinite number of ways to injure and kill people and when one is taken away, human beings just move on to the next one.

That's how it was, how it is, and how it always will be. The weapons may change, but that doesn't matter because people who intend to harm their fellow human beings are the problem, not the weapons themselves.[/quotee2defc2767]

Smoothe move exlax.

I understand you're trying to be sarcastic but your arguement isn't even valid. For a start, the woman in that two year old story was asking for more severe penalties for people caught carrying knives in public.

Hmm knives....what were knives "invented" for? Cutting, carving, hunting......

Guns....what were guns invented for? Killing......and killing.

So if someone wanted tighter gun control and got it, then they should campaign for all other tools that have been used to kill people to be restricted also?

I'm saying, why not have tighter or as tight as tightly possible restrictions on gun ownership in this country (since people seem like they would rather give up their kids than their guns here)), but still allow people to own them after being screened and background-checked. If the gun had never been invented then the world would be a safer place.

bad guys will always get guns illegally and good guys are always losing the ability to innocently get a gun. I have several, I have no intention of killing anyone (or anything really, I'm not a hunter) If one day my family is threatened, maybe the sheer sight of the gun will scare off a threat.

Yes, it would be kinda scary if anyone can get a gun, but it IS scary if a good person can't get a gun, while a fucked up criminal can find one imported from Israel from a Israeli-american gun smuggler in NYC (ok, that's prolly way off, but you see where I'm getting) all most americans who want guns want is a simple handgun and/or a rifle/shotgun. Nothing else.

I have no problem with the 2nd Amendment. People should be allowed to own guns. How else would they revolt? ;)

The way I see it is, if you can teach people to be responsible with firearms then there will be far less accidental deaths as a result.

Gun control never stopped criminals from getting guns. Look at what happened in Toronto, Canada on December 26th. A guy shot and killed a young girl at the corner of Yonge and Dundas (think the Toronto version of Times Square) in front of throngs of people on the busiest shopping day of the season. When you consider that Canada has tough gun control laws, you see how they only serve to get in the way of legitimate gun owners.

Here are some stats for you.

[quote67b42268d7]

Historical results of gun control
Facts are real and whether you agree or not, it's an interesting lesson in
history. Something to think about...
----------------------------------------------------------
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated.
--------------------------------------------------------
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million
Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
--------------------------------------------------------
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
--------------------------------------------------------
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million
political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated.
--------------------------------------------------------
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
--------------------------------------------------------
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000
Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
--------------------------------------------------------
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
--------------------------------------------------------
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control 56 million.
--------------------------------------------------------
It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.

The first year results are now in

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent

Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent

Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent!)
In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300
percent. (Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the
criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!)

While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed. There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in "successfully ridding Australian society of guns."
--------------------------------------------------------
The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.
--------------------------------------------------------
You won't see this data on the American evening news or hear our president, governors or other politicians disseminating this information.
--------------------------------------------------------
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes,
gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.
--------------------------------------------------------
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.
--------------------------------------------------------
With guns, we are citizens.
Without them, we are subjects.

[/quote67b42268d7]