Becoming a Doctor

Well pretty much,

my grasp of the steps is

A)Undergrad (for about 4 yrs)

B)Med School (for another 4 yrs)

C)Residency (2-7 years) If you guys could please throw in anything you know about this step, it would be great. Things such as How long for each field of medicine? How much is a residents salary?

D) Hmm... maybe you can tell me


If you know anything at all, your input would be greatly appreciated.

Things such as Salaries of various types of doctors, salaries of doctors who have opened their own practices, cost of opening one's own practice.


Thx


edit

and telling me to "google it" isn't really what I'm asking for.

arrow To start....[=http//tinyurl.com/ycngdf]To start....

As a resident you will not make much at all. What kind of doctor do you want to be. There are thousands of different kids, and I am not going to list all the various salaries for all of them.

I have 2 uncles, one works on throats and another on stomach diseases. The second one makes a lot more since there are no other doctors like him in the state.

Also, my best friend is working on becoming a plastic surgeon.

[quote8bc9447c44="OldManWrigley"]arrow To start....[=http//tinyurl.com/ycngdf]To start....[/quote8bc9447c44]

Wow, you really went to some lengths hiding that URL so he wouldn't figure out it was a Google book. That kind of dedication to bashing someone's thread deserves a karma point.

Actually I hit CTRL+T after reading it, typed in "how to use google", clicked a link, clicked and hit CTRL+C, then CTRL+T, then clicked and typed in tinyurl.com, clicked and hit CTRL+V and then clicked and hit CTRL+C and then clicked and hit CTRL+V then tab twice.

Probably <1 minute.

Anyway amir, my uncle is a (not going to attempt how to spell it, but some pratice where he like touches people and finds out what's going on inside of him...ill try cranial sacrial therepist), and he gets paid $100 an hour from his pateints. He put in a lot of college time, and a lot of time where he wasn't paid more then someone working at walmart.

A head reader?

Um, not exactly. Something like this

arrow Info On Cranio-Sacral Therapy[=http//www.altguide.com/therapy/info/cranio.html]Info On Cranio-Sacral Therapy

Ah ok, I thought maybe it was one of those doctors who read your head for various things. The cranial threw me off. I never heard of that doctor before, very interesting.....

Doctors are obsolete. See TryinToGetPaid's sig.

[quote1e9016d51d="OldManWrigley"]Actually I hit CTRL+T after reading it, typed in "how to use google", clicked a link, clicked and hit CTRL+C, then CTRL+T, then clicked and typed in tinyurl.com, clicked and hit CTRL+V and then clicked and hit CTRL+C and then clicked and hit CTRL+V then tab twice.

Probably <1 minute.
[/quote1e9016d51d]


http//media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/nowai-42443.jpg[" alt=""/img1e9016d51d]

ZING!

Are you interested in becoming a doctor is it just a salary?

[quotee96718eac5="Daggoth"]Are you interested in becoming a doctor is it just a salary?[/quotee96718eac5]

Huh?

Amir, what are you looking into becoming? And I think, [ie96718eac5]I think[/ie96718eac5] what Daggoth [ie96718eac5]may[/ie96718eac5] have meant was are you intrested in saving lives or doing whatever you want to be doing as a doctor to help people or are you just doing it for the dollar bills?

to be honest. Its a little bit of both. I do have interest in the field of medicine. But being a physician also means that I can be financially stable as well.

[quote36682f3bbf="amir89630"]to be honest. Its a little bit of both. I do have interest in the field of medicine. But being a physician also means that I can be financially stable as well.[/quote36682f3bbf]

Same with me. I'm not sure if I can take that many years of school either, ya know? But you know what they always say, make sure you like your job or your life is going to be hell doing it.

[quotea8341c6cee="KeithA"]Doctors are obsolete. See TryinToGetPaid's sig.[/quotea8341c6cee]

All you have to do is close your eyes and think really hard. Then people's afflictions are immediately gone.

Yeah, NOW CLICK THE BANNER!

I mean...what advertisement?

It's really not worth it if you're doing it for salary purposes. It's way too much work, med school costs a lot, and you'll be studying for years before actually working (and then studying while working too).

Also, after residency there's fellowship...I think you can do that after you start working or something, but I'm not sure, that's too far in the future for me to think about..lol.

okay, wow, your ideas and focal points are WAAAAAAAAAAY off.

and the fact you are asking about the salaries makes me nervous.

But i will help anyway because this should set you straight and might help others


In your Undergrad you are required as pre-med student to take
Bio I + lab
Bio II + lab
Chem I + lab
Chem II + lab
O Chem I + lab
O Chem II + lab
Phys I + lab
Phys II + lab
Calc I

And the grades need to be A's. I am not exaggerating. If you have a B in either O Chem I or O Chem II, then that's okay (but not a B in both). And one other B in something is fine as well. 2-3 B's the rest A's. Shoot for all A's and if you get 2 B's, you are okay. Your overall undergrad gpa has to be at least 3.5. I mean, other things compensate, and nothing is set in stone, but these are what med schools look for. And they are competitive, so bare minimum isnt what you should be looking for. Dont pull a 3.5 and feel fine.

You MUST take those classes in order to apply for med school. You can major in anything you want, as long as you take those classes. Most pre-med students major in chem or bio though because all those classes count towards that major. But those are required classes, even you study on your own for your MCAT, you need to take those. Some people get an undergrad in something else and then later decide to go into medicine. They must do post grad studies at a university and take the classes from that list that they didnt in order to get accepted into med school.

Which brings me to the next part..... the dreaded MCAT. You need at least a 30. But that score is not competitive, so aim 32+. People usually take this junior year. Spend the $1,000 and take the Kaplan or Princeton review before you take MCAT. MCAT is not memorization of what you learned, IT IS APPLICATION OF THE KNOWLEDGE. So it is tricky to study for. But you need to know the concepts in order to apply them. So no garbage-in, garbage-out learning.


[bdd855d2753]YOU HAVE TO HAVE TO HAVE TO HAVE be shadowing doctors AND volunteering throughout undergrad.[/bdd855d2753] Your summers should be spent working and volunteering in a hospital setting. Any med school forum, counselor, doctor, current med student will tell you this!! They want to know that you are going into medicine to help people and have an overall general attitude to want to help people (which i have my doubt about you personally seeing how little emphasis you put on certain areas of your post).


High ethics are desired in medicine (or at least the admissions committee looks for it). So dont be a dumbass in college and get arrested for underage consumption or disturubing the peace. Any criminal history (however small it may be) will [bdd855d2753]black list[/bdd855d2753] you from all med schools in the US. So no idiot partying in college. Be responsible. Dont hang out with the wrong crowd and get in trouble because you were at the scene. Otherwise, kiss getting into med school goodbye. If you really want to be a doctor [bdd855d2753]to help people[/bdd855d2753], then this sacrifice is nothing.


You need to be well rounded too. Dont just study and get good grades. You need to be active in the community and at your university.


Do you know about health care and what is going on in medicine here in the US and globally?? If not, you are fucked. This area is some of what they ask in the interviews (among many other things). You cant "study for this a month in advance." Start reading medical journals NOW. Keep up to date, i recommend New England Journal of Medicine. You can subscribe online, it's worth the money. Know about the past, present, and future of medicine. You should be able to easily hold a conversation on this.





There are three basic routes in medicine
MD program
DO program - not "easier" to get in, but they look at other factors more, so people with lower gpas and mcat scores this is better for them.
foreign program (carribean usually) - there are many that transfer to the US system; good if you have a lower gpa like 3.3 and a low mcat score like 29. And yes, those are realistically low numbers.

Then in the MD program, you can usually either 4 year, 5 year, or 8year MD/PhD (which is for masochists and SUPER BRAINS only). Not all have all three. But mostly 4 year.


Oh yeah, there is no such thing as "Freshman Forgiveness," dropping classes, repeating classes in medicine. They calculate the gpas [bdd855d2753]including[/bdd855d2753] classes you re-take. They see the classes you drop (and obviously know why). Also they have a system for calculating GPAs. It is not one you can find online, but it is known that it exists. Every college has a different formula, meaning a 3.4 from MIT is worth more than a 3.9 from Florida State, for example.

It helps to make your electives science related. So take that titrations lab or quantum physics instead of art appreciation.



Dont take this the wrong way, but I have a lot of friends that are in CWRU school of medicine (mostly chinese and indian) and by your user name i am guessing you are indian, because i know about 10 people at Case with that name. It seems like the Asians "have" to go into medicine or they feel like failures. Just make sure you are going in for the right reasons. Because if you arent smart and hard working, medicine isnt for you. You commit your life to it, not to make money, but to help people.

Oh and amir, FYI doctors dont make as much money these days as people think. Mal practice insurance can run you over $100,000 per year. Also you are not making your salary based on a 40 hour week. Haha, 40 hours is a joke after being on call and doing rounds twice a day. So factor that in. Also after med school you have three years residency, then you go into your specialty. So my cousin finished his undergrad at 23, med school at 27, residency at 31, then did a fellowship for 5 year in cardiovascular medicine or something liek that.

You seem awefully concerned with how much time this will take. I dont know if medicine is for you. Really think about it from a practical standpoint.

Oh and if you do do it, do not open your own practice. Good god, you do want a life???

Trama surgeons make a lot of money, but their residency is so much longer. And their malpractice insurance is high. Plus is someone sues, usually if it is under $2 mil the insurance company will give it to them (unless it is black and white) because it cost them MORE than 2 million to defend it (which is why the real money is getting your JD and MD; there are actually several universities that offer a combined JD/MD program from the supergenious, super masochist people)

Everyone knows to stay away from OB/GYN because there are too many lawsuits. Psychiatry is tough because you dont always see results so it is not fulfilling.
Oncology is very depressing. But some feel they help in the short run and that is okay for them.

Urology makes crappy pay, but that is basically a 9-5 job. When you are on call, you can always postpone the lab work until the next day because urine screening isnt pressing and any pressing issues are determined through blood work.


Good luck Amir and hope this helps!

PS, it's easier when you actually want to make a difference and help people. Go down to a county hospital and see doctors working on patients that they very well know will never be able to pay them. Talk to doctors who go to Africa and live in a muddy, fly-infested hut for 3 month volunteering with AIDS patients. Get a fucking clue! It is not about money. roll

[quoteef35e15248="Dave82"]okay, wow, your ideas and focal points are WAAAAAAAAAAY off.

and the fact you are asking about the salaries makes me nervous.

But i will help anyway because this should set you straight and might help others


In your Undergrad you are required as pre-med student to take
Bio I + lab
Bio II + lab
Chem I + lab
Chem II + lab
O Chem I + lab
O Chem II + lab
Phys I + lab
Phys II + lab
Calc I

And the grades need to be A's. I am not exaggerating. If you have a B in either O Chem I or O Chem II, then that's okay (but not a B in both). And one other B in something is fine as well. 2-3 B's the rest A's. Shoot for all A's and if you get 2 B's, you are okay. Your overall undergrad gpa has to be at least 3.5. I mean, other things compensate, and nothing is set in stone, but these are what med schools look for. And they are competitive, so bare minimum isnt what you should be looking for. Dont pull a 3.5 and feel fine.

You MUST take those classes in order to apply for med school. You can major in anything you want, as long as you take those classes. Most pre-med students major in chem or bio though because all those classes count towards that major. But those are required classes, even you study on your own for your MCAT, you need to take those. Some people get an undergrad in something else and then later decide to go into medicine. They must do post grad studies at a university and take the classes from that list that they didnt in order to get accepted into med school.

Which brings me to the next part..... the dreaded MCAT. You need at least a 30. But that score is not competitive, so aim 32+. People usually take this junior year. Spend the $1,000 and take the Kaplan or Princeton review before you take MCAT. MCAT is not memorization of what you learned, IT IS APPLICATION OF THE KNOWLEDGE. So it is tricky to study for. But you need to know the concepts in order to apply them. So no garbage-in, garbage-out learning.


[bef35e15248]YOU HAVE TO HAVE TO HAVE TO HAVE be shadowing doctors AND volunteering throughout undergrad.[/bef35e15248] Your summers should be spent working and volunteering in a hospital setting. Any med school forum, counselor, doctor, current med student will tell you this!! They want to know that you are going into medicine to help people and have an overall general attitude to want to help people (which i have my doubt about you personally seeing how little emphasis you put on certain areas of your post).


High ethics are desired in medicine (or at least the admissions committee looks for it). So dont be a dumbass in college and get arrested for underage consumption or disturubing the peace. Any criminal history (however small it may be) will [bef35e15248]black list[/bef35e15248] you from all med schools in the US. So no idiot partying in college. Be responsible. Dont hang out with the wrong crowd and get in trouble because you were at the scene. Otherwise, kiss getting into med school goodbye. If you really want to be a doctor [bef35e15248]to help people[/bef35e15248], then this sacrifice is nothing.


You need to be well rounded too. Dont just study and get good grades. You need to be active in the community and at your university.


Do you know about health care and what is going on in medicine here in the US and globally?? If not, you are fucked. This area is some of what they ask in the interviews (among many other things). You cant "study for this a month in advance." Start reading medical journals NOW. Keep up to date, i recommend New England Journal of Medicine. You can subscribe online, it's worth the money. Know about the past, present, and future of medicine. You should be able to easily hold a conversation on this.





There are three basic routes in medicine
MD program
DO program - not "easier" to get in, but they look at other factors more, so people with lower gpas and mcat scores this is better for them.
foreign program (carribean usually) - there are many that transfer to the US system; good if you have a lower gpa like 3.3 and a low mcat score like 29. And yes, those are realistically low numbers.

Then in the MD program, you can usually either 4 year, 5 year, or 8year MD/PhD (which is for masochists and SUPER BRAINS only). Not all have all three. But mostly 4 year.


Oh yeah, there is no such thing as "Freshman Forgiveness," dropping classes, repeating classes in medicine. They calculate the gpas [bef35e15248]including[/bef35e15248] classes you re-take. They see the classes you drop (and obviously know why). Also they have a system for calculating GPAs. It is not one you can find online, but it is known that it exists. Every college has a different formula, meaning a 3.4 from MIT is worth more than a 3.9 from Florida State, for example.

It helps to make your electives science related. So take that titrations lab or quantum physics instead of art appreciation.



Dont take this the wrong way, but I have a lot of friends that are in CWRU school of medicine (mostly chinese and indian) and by your user name i am guessing you are indian, because i know about 10 people at Case with that name. It seems like the Asians "have" to go into medicine or they feel like failures. Just make sure you are going in for the right reasons. Because if you arent smart and hard working, medicine isnt for you. You commit your life to it, not to make money, but to help people.

Oh and amir, FYI doctors dont make as much money these days as people think. Mal practice insurance can run you over $100,000 per year. Also you are not making your salary based on a 40 hour week. Haha, 40 hours is a joke after being on call and doing rounds twice a day. So factor that in. Also after med school you have three years residency, then you go into your specialty. So my cousin finished his undergrad at 23, med school at 27, residency at 31, then did a fellowship for 5 year in cardiovascular medicine or something liek that.

You seem awefully concerned with how much time this will take. I dont know if medicine is for you. Really think about it from a practical standpoint.

Oh and if you do do it, do not open your own practice. Good god, you do want a life???

Trama surgeons make a lot of money, but their residency is so much longer. And their malpractice insurance is high. Plus is someone sues, usually if it is under $2 mil the insurance company will give it to them (unless it is black and white) because it cost them MORE than 2 million to defend it (which is why the real money is getting your JD and MD; there are actually several universities that offer a combined JD/MD program from the supergenious, super masochist people)

Everyone knows to stay away from OB/GYN because there are too many lawsuits. Psychiatry is tough because you dont always see results so it is not fulfilling.
Oncology is very depressing. But some feel they help in the short run and that is okay for them.

Urology makes crappy pay, but that is basically a 9-5 job. When you are on call, you can always postpone the lab work until the next day because urine screening isnt pressing and any pressing issues are determined through blood work.


Good luck Amir and hope this helps!

PS, it's easier when you actually want to make a difference and help people. Go down to a county hospital and see doctors working on patients that they very well know will never be able to pay them. Talk to doctors who go to Africa and live in a muddy, fly-infested hut for 3 month volunteering with AIDS patients. Get a fucking clue! It is not about money. roll[/quoteef35e15248]


A lot of this is incorrect. The grades don't need to be all As. The 3.3 to 3.5 range is perfectly fine (Of course other factors that you mentioned will have to be involved). As for the 30+ on the MCATs, that too is incorrect, especially for DO and Caribbean schools. Of course, 30+ is ideal, but if you don't get that, don't kill yourself. I got a 25 and made it into med school. Shadowing a doctor/volunteering is very important...paid work is just as good, maybe even better, since most med schools know a lot of students just volunteer for a couple hours, then get their relatives or someone they know to write them a letter saying they volunteered 1000 hours. The part of about the money is on point. If you want to be a doctor for the money, just don't do it...(trust me...). Also, there are USMLEs (COMPLEX if you're becoming a DO) during med school, which suck. Ok, well, don't think I've tried deterring you from being a doctor, just telling you some of what to expect.

+karma to you, sir. (dave82)


DAMN..

im out for now, but ill get back to you.


However, i do have a few questions.
Those numbers that you were giving (MCATS, GPAs, ETC) are you sure those are right. I'm looking at a bunch of different undergrad places, and a few of those places have 75% of their med school applicants being accepted (w/ 95% with a gpa of 3.3 and an MCAT of 26 getting accepted)


But seriously, thanks man, i really appreciate it. Im gonna have to do a lot of thinking about this.



PS im persian wink

WHAT "MED SCHOOL" TOOK YOU WITH A 25 MCAT SCORE??!


You can re-take your MCAT, but your old score never "disappears." They see all your MCAT scores taken in a 6 year period

[quote855d43e653="Dave82"]WHAT "MED SCHOOL" TOOK YOU WITH A 25 MCAT SCORE??!


You can re-take your MCAT, but your old score never "disappears." They see all your MCAT scores taken in a 6 year period[/quote855d43e653]

Thanks for putting "med school" in quotes. Average is 26...and GPA range is about 3.3-3.5. I had a 25 and 3.4.

[quote9601f98c94="amir89630"]+karma to you, sir. (dave82)


DAMN..

im out for now, but ill get back to you.


However, i do have a few questions.
Those numbers that you were giving (MCATS, GPAs, ETC) are you sure those are right. I'm looking at a bunch of different undergrad places, and a few of those places have 75% of their med school applicants being accepted (w/ 95% with a gpa of 3.3 and an MCAT of 26 getting accepted)


But seriously, thanks man, i really appreciate it. Im gonna have to do a lot of thinking about this.



PS im persian wink[/quote9601f98c94]


That is the info that i got on the GPAs etc from people at CWRU, which if you havent heard of it is a GREAT school. I dont know about a 3.3 and 26 MCAT. But go to the university websites that you are interested in and they have contact info for information. Email or call and they will give you a straight forward answer.

ALSO I FORGOT Letters of recommendation are key. From professors and doctors. Make sure the doctors are not related to you. They know that one D

[quote6cf7c95b0d="schizerbone"][quote6cf7c95b0d="Dave82"]WHAT "MED SCHOOL" TOOK YOU WITH A 25 MCAT SCORE??!


You can re-take your MCAT, but your old score never "disappears." They see all your MCAT scores taken in a 6 year period[/quote6cf7c95b0d]

Thanks for putting "med school" in quotes. Average is 26...and GPA range is about 3.3-3.5. I had a 25 and 3.4.[/quote6cf7c95b0d]


Haha sorry. But answer the question then. What school?
And look at a med school forum where people post their mcat scores and gpas and then what schools accepted/rejected. I never saw figures like that for MD programs. DO programs are a different story. But no way for MD.

i didnt mean to make you feel bad. It's just those numbers seem low. Haha, and you didnt have to edit your post.





Oh, and the first thing i should have said to you was [u7f7ebaed2c]congratulations[/u7f7ebaed2c] on getting accepted into medical school. I really do mean that. It is a milestone and a step in the direction of a bright future.

Maybe you can tell Amir about how your undergrad classes were stuctured.

If you aren't interested in medicine a lot then this is what I have to say

Good. Freakin. Luck. If med school drive you insane, then residency will.

be a professional poker player, its easier.

[quoteb8e07ae5a5="kdollar"]be a professional poker player, its easier.[/quoteb8e07ae5a5]

actually poker is highly mathematical. Poker players are some of the smartest people, despite how stupid they come off as. It is part of their cover. Poker is a lot of stats and probability. It is not luck. Everything is a risk, but a HIGHLY calculated one.

oh i notice a lot of the pro's are drop outs from MIT and such, but i bet its easier than being a doc ).

PM me for accurate information. some of the info in this thread is accurate but there are a lot of inaccuracies here.
a few things that i will say here, though.
medicine does not equal money. doctors get paid far less than in previous years, get half of the respect they got in previous years, have far more paperwork and bs to sift thru than in previous years, have a hard time negotiating (there is no telling what to do) with patients to be adherent/compliant, and IMHO the most rewarding job on the planet.
if you want money, work on wallstreet for 10 years as an investment banker and then retire.
if you want a comfortable salary with a lot of BS but that is very rewarding ethically and that truly helps people medicine is right for you.
it is not easy
you need
1. an undergraduate degree while taking required courses as above
2. a solid GPA - though this is not everything. a 4.0 at a community college may not equal a 3.4 at an ivy league school
3. a solid mcat score - > 30 is considered acceptable though less than that can get you accepted and more than that can be denied
4. (loans can help pay for the whole process)
5. medical school is 3.5-4yrs depending on the program - also MD or DO?
6. residency is 3-7+ years depending on the program. if you want to practice and see patients the basic flow chart for what you will do is
surgery or medicine/primary care?
general or subspecialty?
...
fellowship or no fellowship
there are MANY things you can do with an MD or DO (allopathic or osteopathic doctor)

also, residents depending on where they live make 30-55k a year. there are often good benefits.
some links/books
http//www.amazon.com/Isersons-Getting-into-Residency-Students/dp/1883620309/sr=8-1/qid=1162965921/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-4154781-8203331?ie=UTF8&s=books
http//www.amazon.com/Residency-Match-Biggest-Mistakes-Avoid/dp/0972556117/sr=8-2/qid=1162965921/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-4154781-8203331?ie=UTF8&s=books
http//www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Guide-Choosing-Medical-Specialty/dp/007141052X/sr=8-3/qid=1162965921/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/102-4154781-8203331?ie=UTF8&s=books
http//www.amazon.com/Medical-School-Residency-Compete-Successfully/dp/0387950036/sr=8-6/qid=1162965921/ref=pd_bbs_sr_6/102-4154781-8203331?ie=UTF8&s=books
http//www.amazon.com/Wischnitzers-Residency-Manual-Selecting-Succeeding/dp/0521675162/sr=8-12/qid=1162965921/ref=sr_1_12/102-4154781-8203331?ie=UTF8&s=books
http//www.amazon.com/Med-School-Confidential-Complete-Experience/dp/0312330081/sr=8-20/qid=1162966005/ref=sr_1_20/102-4154781-8203331?ie=UTF8&s=books


that is enough for now. if you are serious about discussing this PM me.

Damn, if I were afraid of doctors, I don't think I'd ever come back here. )