Stem Cell Research

What are your views on it? Right now I'm writing an 8 page research paper on it and it'd be REALLY helpful to get some opinions from other people on this touchy subject. What do you guys think if embryonic stem cell research? Are you guys for it or against it? Is Bush doing the right thing by vetoing most of it?

Help yourselves to a healthy, non-flame infested debate. I know Ilan loves debates. lol

Anyway, I'm going to keep working on my paper, hopefully I can see some good views on the subject. Thanks guys. )

I made a poll about embryonic stem cell research but this thread is about all types of stem cell research and anything related to that.

I believe the ban on it is wrong. These are embryos that are being destroyed, not a possible life. The amount of possible good that could come from it is more important than the stigma seen in using human embryos.

[quoteedcd55bd56="Peinecone"]I believe the ban on it is wrong. These are embryos that are being destroyed, not a possible life. The amount of possible good that could come from it is more important than the stigma seen in using human embryos.[/quoteedcd55bd56]

Yeah I've felt that way as well. They certainly shouldn't be wasting them. They might as well use these embryos from abortions for research if they are going to be destroyed anyway. That's kind of the stance I'm taking on the subject.

Are they really taking live babies from birth and stabbing their brains with scissors and sucking out their brains after they are already born? I've heard that many times at my old school I went to that was a private Christian school. If they do that, I definitely think that is wrong.

As for just taking the stem cells out of an embryo that's going to waste anyway, I think that's okay.

well i'll be honest I really am not that informed about the topic and i just know stuff from what i've heard people say [links to information anyone?].

These extra stem cell lines from fertility clinics I keep hearing about though, if they really are discarded when they are not used I don't understand how anyone could be against using these ones for research given the scope of potencial. they would be thrown in the trash anyway am i right here?

[quote2afcbbf11d="J4320"]
Are they really taking live babies from birth and stabbing their brains with scissors and sucking out their brains after they are already born? I've heard that many times at my old school I went to that was a private Christian school. If they do that, I definitely think that is wrong.
[/quote2afcbbf11d]

They really told you that?

[quote5910f2de2b="emoney"][quote5910f2de2b="J4320"]
Are they really taking live babies from birth and stabbing their brains with scissors and sucking out their brains after they are already born? I've heard that many times at my old school I went to that was a private Christian school. If they do that, I definitely think that is wrong.
[/quote5910f2de2b]

They really told you that?[/quote5910f2de2b]

Yeah, but I don't believe much of anything until cross-checking it with other credible sources. ;)

I'm not one to jump on the bandwagon and believe everything I hear.

[quote070a34161d="J4320"]
Are they really taking live babies from birth and stabbing their brains with scissors and sucking out their brains after they are already born?[/quote070a34161d]

what?? said by students or teachers? that's horrible

[quote1d1132df61="geej86"][quote1d1132df61="J4320"]
Are they really taking live babies from birth and stabbing their brains with scissors and sucking out their brains after they are already born?[/quote1d1132df61]

what?? said by students or teachers? that's horrible[/quote1d1132df61]

By teachers...

I Googled it and it appears to be called Partial Birth Abortion. I think it may have happened in a few cases with whacked doctors/scientists but I think it's illegal now. My teachers made it appear like it was a common thing and it happens a lot, I certainly doubt that's the case though.

Anyway, in embryonic stem cell research, it's still an embryo, not a living baby, I'm pretty sure it's a bunch of cells still and not a living thing.

[quote31b497773e="J4320"]
Are they really taking live babies from birth and stabbing their brains with scissors and sucking out their brains after they are already born? I've heard that many times at my old school I went to that was a private Christian school. If they do that, I definitely think that is wrong.
[/quote31b497773e]

http//forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/wtf.gif[" alt=""/img31b497773e]

[quotecb7f55bb15="J4320"]
Anyway, in embryonic stem cell research, it's still an embryo, not a living baby, I'm pretty sure it's a bunch of cells still and not a living thing.[/quotecb7f55bb15]

What kind of paper is it? Are you supposed to pick a side and argue it, or just state both sides?

In any case, I'm right there with you. In my mind, the embryo is not a living thing, and therefore should be used for research. Of course, the Christian Right will argue this point all day.

[quotecb7f55bb15="Daggoth"]

http//forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/wtf.gif[" alt=""/imgcb7f55bb15][/quotecb7f55bb15]

I know right!

[quotedd7222cbf7="Daggoth"][quotedd7222cbf7="J4320"]
Are they really taking live babies from birth and stabbing their brains with scissors and sucking out their brains after they are already born? I've heard that many times at my old school I went to that was a private Christian school. If they do that, I definitely think that is wrong.
[/quotedd7222cbf7]

http//forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/wtf.gif[" alt=""/imgdd7222cbf7][/quotedd7222cbf7]

[img="dd7222cbf7]http//www.lifeissues.org/images/PBA.jpg[" alt=""/imgdd7222cbf7]

[url==http//www.google.com/search?q=partial+birth+abortion&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozillaen-USofficial&client=firefox-a]Partial Birth Abortion[=http//www.google.com/search?q=partial+birth+abortion&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozillaen-USofficial&client=firefox-a]Partial Birth Abortion[/url]

Yeah it's pretty nasty. I'm not going to look any further into it right now because I have a huge paper to write.

[quote7750b48bda="emoney"][quote7750b48bda="J4320"]
Anyway, in embryonic stem cell research, it's still an embryo, not a living baby, I'm pretty sure it's a bunch of cells still and not a living thing.[/quote7750b48bda]

What kind of paper is it? Are you supposed to pick a side and argue it, or just state both sides?

In any case, I'm right there with you. In my mind, the embryo is not a living thing, and therefore should be used for research. Of course, the Christian Right will argue this point all day.

[quote7750b48bda="Daggoth"]

http//forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/wtf.gif[" alt=""/img7750b48bda][/quote7750b48bda]

I know right![/quote7750b48bda]

Well it's an argumentative research paper. I'm arguing that stem cell research is okay and it's being hindered by these ethical concerns. So yeah, I'm picking this side and arguing about it while presenting sources.

What religion is your professor?

[quote8c08f02257="Daggoth"]What religion is your professor?[/quote8c08f02257]

He's atheist. He's also for stem cell research. This is at a community college.

I remember reading somewhere on the internet that more people are for stem cell research than against it. I wish I could find it again. I'm bringing up that point right now in my paper and a credible source for that would definitely be needed.

Anyway, who voted no? Want to give your opinion?

One of the reasons I would think people would be against this is because it would promote abortion. Something along the lines of this

"Yah, I am getting an abortion to promote Science."

... but I haven't voted yet.

[quoteb0acc3e063="Daggoth"]One of the reasons I would think people would be against this is because it would promote abortion. Something along the lines of this

"Yah, I am getting an abortion to promote Science."

... but I haven't voted yet.[/quoteb0acc3e063]


lol I am catholic and I support stem cell research based on how they are doing it now. The fact remains they are not killing babies, which most idiots believe who are against it.

Wow I wish I paid more attention to a Michael J. Fox interview on the news a little while back. He was promoting stem cell research for medical advancements (it has the potential to help against Parkinson's). He really had some great valid points and he was very convincing. It was kind of sad to see how he couldn't sit still during the interview, it made me feel bad for him.

Sorry for the double post, but...

Bush seems to be so cryptic about this issue.

[quote9c0ed07754="Bush"]"I am a strong supporter of stem cell research, but I've made it very clear to Congress that the use of federal taxpayer money to promote science that destroys life in order to save life, I am against this."[/quote9c0ed07754]

Thanks Bush, that sure got us somewhere. roll

[quote064fcc6a05="J4320"]Wow I wish I paid more attention to a Michael J. Fox interview on the news a little while back. He was promoting stem cell research for medical advancements (it has the potential to help against Parkinson's). He really had some great valid points and he was very convincing. It was kind of sad to see how he couldn't sit still during the interview, it made me feel bad for him.[/quote064fcc6a05]
And did you hear or see Rush Limbaugh's reaction to Michael J Fox's interview? He mocked him by twitching, and said that he was faking most of it.

[quotec6c8bc9a80="J4320"]Sorry for the double post, but...

Bush seems to be so cryptic about this issue.

[quotec6c8bc9a80="Bush"]"I am a strong supporter of stem cell research, but I've made it very clear to Congress that the use of federal taxpayer money to promote science that destroys life in order to save life, I am against this."[/quotec6c8bc9a80]

Thanks Bush, that sure got us somewhere. roll[/quotec6c8bc9a80]

And yet its ok to spend much much, much more federal taxpayer money on a war that destroys life in order to supposedly save life.

Of course, I don't agree that stem cell research "destroys" life in the first place.

/edit sorry for the double post, didn't realize the posts wouldn't automatically merge themselves.

A search for "stem cell research poll" brought about this source[=http//www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/24/opinion/polls/main697546.shtml]this source; I assume CBS is considered a reputable source (although the poll is a little old).

I'm all for stem cell research for most of the reasons mentioned above. It can't be prevented, really, just delayed. Science can't be unlearned, so slowly but surely it's gaining knowledge and more efficient and "humane" ways of implementation.

This issue is more religious than anything else, which is why it's usually redundant.


I don't suppose I can convince you to write about the evils of Santa Claus, can I? I'd even send you my paper to get you started.

[quote1b1acb93c3="ilanbg"]A search for "stem cell research poll" brought about this source[=http//www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/24/opinion/polls/main697546.shtml]this source; I assume CBS is considered a reputable source (although the poll is a little old).

I'm all for stem cell research for most of the reasons mentioned above. It can't be prevented, really, just delayed. Science can't be unlearned, so slowly but surely it's gaining knowledge and more efficient and "humane" ways of implementation.

This issue is more religious than anything else, which is why it's usually redundant.


I don't suppose I can convince you to write about the evils of Santa Claus, can I? I'd even send you my paper to get you started.[/quote1b1acb93c3]

Yeah I found an article on about.com saying how there are more people for stem cell research than against it. I think I'll go with the source you found though, because it's more reputable.

And emoney, I didn't see Rush Limbaugh's commentary about it. I bet I can go find it on youtube though.

[quotec944b07398]And emoney, I didn't see Rush Limbaugh's commentary about it. I bet I can go find it on youtube though.[/quotec944b07398]

... and the sad part is, he hasn't even apologized for his actions... what a stupid asshole. I can't see how any person (no matter how conservative they are) can actually support this douche bag.

Getting back on topic, I absolutely support stem cell research... They are wasting those embryos away and the only people that don't care are the Christian Right. They still view it as life... But it's life being rotted away...

Who in their right minds would not put these otherwise wasted embryos to help medical science break new grounds?

[quotea509aa96b9="h3x"][quotea509aa96b9]And emoney, I didn't see Rush Limbaugh's commentary about it. I bet I can go find it on youtube though.[/quotea509aa96b9]

... and the sad part is, he hasn't even apologized for his actions... what a stupid asshole. I can't see how any person (no matter how conservative they are) can actually support this douche bag.

Getting back on topic, I absolutely support stem cell research... They are wasting those embryos away and the only people that don't care are the Christian Right. They still view it as life... But it's life being rotted away...

[ba509aa96b9]Who in their right minds would not put these otherwise wasted embryos to help medical science break new grounds?[/ba509aa96b9][/quotea509aa96b9]

I love that statement.

I just read that 85 out of 100 embryos are wasted. |

I just did a presentation in class about Stem Cell Research. For a while this was one of those issues I didn't weigh in on because I didn't have enough information. But really, take like 5 minutes to research the topic, and it's really not complicated at all. Anyone who opposes Stem Cell Research really is an idiot (not to be mean, but seriously).

SCR is done on embryos that are going to be thrown out usually from In Vitro Fertilization. IVF is the process of fertilizing an egg outside of the womb so it can be later implanted in the uterus. Something like 85% of embryos fertilized for IVF aren't used and would be otherwise discarded. In Australia alone, there are 70,000 surplus embryos are available and would be otherwise discarded if not used (http//www.spinneypress.com.au/178_book_desc.html).

I don't have a ton of info (the presentation was 6 min), but when it comes to the moral question, to me, there's really only one answer.

i did a whole paper on this topic last spring....i would send it to you, but that would be plagerizing...and this is a very interesting topic, which i enjoyed...tons of resources out there

Yeah I'm just wrapping up my 8 page paper on it. )

I've been thinking about it a lot. That one embryo that gets destroyed will never be the person that it could have developed into. We could have possibly had someone very important to the human race destroyed by stem cell research.

That's just something to think about...

By that same token, stem cell research may save someone very important to the human race.

Steven Hawking, for example, comes to mind, although technically he can still contribute to mankind.

^ That's a good point. I guess it can be looked at from both sides.

I wonder what would happen if I was used for research and my embryo was destroyed. I guess I wouldn't be in existence. That's some strange stuff to think about.

Oh and THANK GOD for easybib.com.

It's pretty ignorant to answer this poll that ignores so many facets to a much more complicated larger picture.

[quote53a4dffdf8="nobody2000"]It's pretty ignorant to answer this poll that ignores so many facets to a much more complicated larger picture.[/quote53a4dffdf8]

Yeah there are a lot of little complications to it. I was just trying to see what the public opionion was though. 21 to 2 is amazing. shock

[quoteee1e59e6c9="J4320"]Yeah I'm just wrapping up my 8 page paper on it. )

I've been thinking about it a lot. That one embryo that gets destroyed will never be the person that it could have developed into. We could have possibly had someone very important to the human race destroyed by stem cell research.

That's just something to think about...[/quoteee1e59e6c9]

This is true, but under "normal" circumstances, that embryo wouldn't have been created in the first place.

It's important to remember that there are multiple types of stem cell research. Bush supports those other types, such as cord blood stem cells and adult stem cells, just not embryonic. It's the whole moral/philosophical/religious issue of terminating a potential life that has people concerned about embryonic research. As nobody2K alluded to, it's a very complicated issue that's quite hard to discuss rationally with most people, who seem to lump it in the same boat as abortion.

If ALL embryonic research was to be conducted on embryos already doomed to be discarded, it would be much easier to accept, but we all know that should embryonic research be widely accepted and embraced, embryos will be produced strictly for that purpose and nothing else. That is where I begin to have a problem with it, as life is being "generated" or initiated strictly for research. That just doesn't sit right with me, benefits notwithstanding.

On the whole, I support all forms of SCR that does not involve creating embryos strictly for that purpose. As to abortion, it shouldn't be hard to guess that I oppose it as well, with certain exceptions for rape/incest, mother's health, and child's quality of life due to genetic defects or disease. But definitely not out of convenience, or a form of birth control.

As such, it's difficult for me to answer this poll the way it is offered, as I'm somewhere on the order of 75% in support, 25% not. )

I work in a Human Genetics lab, we do a lot of stem cell research. It is ridiculous the way this issue has been politicized and demonized. Most of the information you find is wrong and comes from conservative think tanks using the issue as a distraction from the real issues. I don't have a lot of time but I can tell you that Stem Cells are not harvested as shown in the diagram above. The potential that exists in stem cell research is amazing, and to ignore that and continue to allow afflicted ACTUAL humans suffer is ridiculous, only to save some wasted embryos that would be discarded anyway.

I agree with you, jMuss. The problem is that it is very difficult for the layman to get a clear, unbiased, trusted view of how SCR is done. Way to much FUD generated by BOTH sides of the issue.

I feel though that support among the public is pretty high, and could likely get higher if they actually knew the unvarnished truth behind the science. On the other hand, isn't it also possible that such an "unvarnishing" could very well open up a whole new can of worms that some people may not be prepared to accept or deal with?

FUD is evil, and serves a specific agenda, however everyone involved has an agenda so it's difficult to see the true nature of this complicated subject.

As a quasi-scientist myself, and knowing quite a few "real" scientists, I know that scientists are not beyond becoming so totally engrossed in their work that they lose all sight of social and moral concerns. All that matters is the science itself to them. Unfortunately, the nature of our very world is much more complicated than that. Everything has to be weighed.

All that said, I agree that SCR has tremendous potential for the human race. It's just a delicate subject that must be handled very very carefully, or it's doomed to stalemate, which doesn't benefit anyone.

the importance of stem cell research to human medicine and science will be amazing for this century. mark my words ;)

as said above, there are many sources for stem cells, not all embryonic.

i don't even know what stem cell is or what the research is doing for us or against us.

"but we all know that should embryonic research be widely accepted and embraced, embryos will be produced strictly for that purpose and nothing else."

I heavily disagree with the statement. The sheer number of embryos created for IVF that are going to be discarded would make this unnecessary. Currently, the problem is that there are too few stem cell lines to work on, and merely taking some of the embryos that are going to be discarded to make new lines might even be enough. As I stated before, there are 70,000 excess embryos in Australia alone. I don't know how many are in the US, but I can only imagine there are more, and if we were to start using these excess embryos for research, there would be no need to create embryos for research. One a line has been created, it can be replicated and distributed, and once enough lines are created and distributed, creating embryos for the sheer purpose of research becomes unnecessary.

If you to start by taking a large number of current excess embryos to create lines, you wouldn't need more than possibly a hand full of new lines created each year, if that (this last sentence is personal interpolation, by the way, but seems reasonable from what I know), making embryo creation for research alone excessive.

You may be right, Nimh, it's just the cynic in me I suppose. Give a certain someone a financial incentive to create new embryos, and I'm sure they'll do it. But if there were already a surplus of IVF embryos, and there was no chance that new ones would be created (or a few "extra" thrown in for every IVF procedure) specifically for SCR, then I'd support embryonic research. I'd just have to be made very confident that illicit embryo production would never happen.

I understand where you're coming from (I'm usually pretty cynical myself), but making it illegal with stiff fines and penalties, and with the current excess in legitimate embryos, there would be no reason for someone to make them otherwise.

From what I could tell my professor liked the paper. I haven't gotten a grade on it yet though.

After writing a paper supporting it, I kind of have second thoughts. I still feel weird about killing an embryo that might develop into someone important.

Just look at it mathematically; since an 'important' person is someone who stands out above the rest, and since in order to do that one must be in the minority, it's statistically likelier that the embryo would just be another Joe Guy.

And everyone hates Joe Guy.

[quotedd2a736a4a="ilanbg"]Just look at it mathematically; since an 'important' person is someone who stands out above the rest, and since in order to do that one must be in the minority, it's statistically likelier that the embryo would just be another Joe Guy.

And everyone hates Joe Guy.[/quotedd2a736a4a]

Some debater you are roll

http//www.vervemusicgroup.com/artist.aspx?ob=per&src=prd&aid=4566

Joe Guy was a fairly popular trumpet player in his short career

[quote9ac078c67a="ilanbg"]Just look at it mathematically; since an 'important' person is someone who stands out above the rest, and since in order to do that one must be in the minority, it's statistically likelier that the embryo would just be another Joe Guy.

And everyone hates Joe Guy.[/quote9ac078c67a]

Well of course it's statistically likelier that the embryo would just become another Joe Guy. If you think about it with common sense, there are more Joe Guy people out there than important people.

Anyway, I was just thinking about it. I'm not sure what side to take on it yet and I'm not going to worry about it until voting age.